Tag: #googlerankings

Business Advice From An SEO Expert

On Episode 90 of The Edge of Innovation, we’re talking with SEO expert Jeremiah Smith. He’s Founder & CEO of Simple Tiger and he’s sharing his business and entrepreneurial advice with us!

Sections

How Jeremiah Got Into SEO
Jeremiah Smith: “Living My Dream”
How Jeremiah Started His Own Business
Jeremiah’s Business Lessons Learned
Advice For Starting Your Own Business
Jeremiah’s Business Book Recommendations
What’s With The Name “Simple Tiger?”
Closing Advice
More Episodes
Show Notes

Business Advice From An SEO Expert

How Jeremiah Got Into SEO

Paul: Welcome to another edition of The Edge of Innovation. Today we’re talking with Jeremiah Smith with Simple Tiger. He’s the founder and CEO. So, you’re an SEO company.

Alright, let’s shift gears a little bit here. This is The Edge of Innovation. While we’ve been spending a lot of time talking about – and I think very useful time – talking about how to do this incredible, important aspect of our web presence in SEO. We’d like to talk to people about why did they start a business? What in the world led them to do this? I’ve likened starting and running your own business as one of the hardest things you will ever do in your life. So, you told us a little bit about the mom and pop that you were working for and you learned SEO. Did you have an aha moment there and say, “I’m going to do this for the rest of my life?”

Jeremiah: Absolutely! It’s so funny that you asked me that because that’s exactly what happened actually. So, my mother was doing the book keeping for that company and she actually was the one that connected me with the company to begin with. They saw a website that she was showing them that I built, and they loved it. They wanted my web design ability, so I did that for them. Then I did the SEO thing because they asked for it.

And when I kind of got this little hunch that I’d seen the leads coming through the site ever since I built it and then did the SEO for the site and was actively working on it every day and I got really curious. I’m looking at the analytics and I see these big names that have come through. That these are guys that I’ve actually met out in our show room and shook their hands. And I generated them on my effort, playing on this little laptop in my office over there. And I was like holy cow its really cool! Something hit me that this is very, very real. This is, at the gut, at the core of a business and these guys are standing out in the showroom with a semitruck out in the loading bay area getting loaded up with twenty ATVs.

I was like, there’s so much value in what I’m doing here, and I got curious at the end of six months and I went and had my mother pull a report for me out of QuickBooks and I said, “Look. Here are the leads that we’ve generated from the SEO effort so far. I’m able to track those because again, this was about 12 years ago, so this was the early days of SEO. Google Analytics data was so wide open. You could get anything you wanted out of it. And so, I knew all these leads came in, out of all these different keywords and so I said I need to look at the books and see what kind of revenue these kinds of people gave us.

And so, she showed me. She generated a report, handed it over to me, I saw that two million dollar increase in revenue and my jaw hit the floor because I knew what they were paying me, which was peanuts compared to that but it was a good living for me at the time. I didn’t care and there’s no hate there at all. I was totally happy and blessed with it. But I saw the value. The proportion of what they paid me to what I was able to deliver through that effort and that was when I said, “I am on to something. I’m on to something that I think I can help a lot of other businesses with and this is what I want to do.”

So I put it on my resume and I said I do SEO full time and stuck my resume out there on Career Builder and it got picked up a couple weeks later by an agency in Atlanta called 360i and 360i – I didn’t know who they were at the time – but when I went in for my first interview, I walked down this long hallway with all these plaques on the wall that said MBC, MTV, E*TRADE, LG Electronics, Sports Illustrated, and I was like, oh my god, this is the big league. So those were my clients when I went on to work there and I took everything that I knew from helping that small mom and pop shop in to working at that agency and noticed that the difference was not that big between what I was doing before and what I learned there. It was just scaled up dramatically based on the budget that these clients had. So that was really the only difference.

Paul: Wow!

Jeremiah: And after that, I realized not only is this valuable but the playing field is level and it’s based on your pace – What can you do? What resources do you have at your disposal? You could leverage all those for SEO and you can see equal sized results.

Jeremiah Smith: “Living My Dream”

Paul: Interesting. So, when you were growing up, did you think you’d own your own business? What was your vision for your future?

Jeremiah: Thanks for asking that. So, it’s funny, when I was a little kid I liked to take this little kitchen set thing that I had. It was like a little kids Fisher Price thing. A little plastic stove and refrigerator, sink and everything. And I’d drag it out to the edge of the street where my parents lived, and I’d take some of my toys that I didn’t want anymore and write some prices on them and stand out there all day and wait for someone to stop and buy one of my toys. No one ever bought anything from me except Mom and Dad. They’d come through and give me a quarter for a plastic dinosaur or something. I loved that and so did my brother. He did the exact same thing. We both did that all the time. Didn’t get much for it but we loved doing it.

Traveling around with mom, she was doing bookkeeping for different clients. I’d go to all these different businesses that she worked for and I loved the variety of going into these different businesses as a kid. Just getting to see them, you know. And she would talk to me about how the business worked. I would watch her balance her checkbook and keep her gas receipts and charge those to her clients and things like that. I just learned a lot about business by kind of watching that happen. And then my father being an actor, he was the self-starter and he had to really sell himself for roles. He had to put everything he had into making his roles something that he could win. And so, I was really just kind of a self-starting, business motivated person.

When I was about to graduate high school though, I was deeply interested in robotics and I thought that I was going to go to school for robotic engineering after high school. But my math grades were terrible. All of my grades were terrible. I had a terrible time in school so my prospects looking at Georgia Tech, robotic engineering degree was just shot. They weren’t going to happen. So right after high school, I did a semester of college, maybe a semester and a half, before I discovered SEO. Then I just dropped out of college and did SEO and it wasn’t until a few years later, that I realized, wait a second, I’m doing robotic engineering on the largest robot in the world! And I didn’t even think about it at the time!

And then fairly recently, about three years ago, I got pulled into the University of South Florida to do some honorary guest lecturing on search engine optimization to senior level marketing students in the marketing program there. And so, it really hit me that I came full circle from failing school pretty much and dropping out of college, to actually teaching college at a very high level on robotic engineering and so now I’m living my dream, knowing that I’ve accomplished that.

But I have to say that I don’t look backwards and see a lot of my personal efforts that led up to that. Based on my faith, I kind of see God’s hand at work and so a whole lot of divinity in that case.

How Jeremiah Started His Own Business

Paul: Very cool. So, you made the crazy decision at some point to start your own business. You were sort of doing it as one person, but there’s a big difference when you hire your first employer, your second employer and you actually realize you’ve started a business. Tell me a little bit about that because you were working at this… you made it to the big leagues and you were working for somebody else. But now you own your own business so how did that happen?

Jeremiah: Yeah, so while I was working for the agency that I mentioned earlier. I really loved it. I gained a lot of intelligence working for that agency. A lot of corporate expertise and understanding and got to dive really deep into working with large brands and playing the corporate brand. But after a very short period of time, I knew I did not fit that corporate model. It just wasn’t for me. And this was around the time that the four hour work week came out and I read that and it totally just shattered everything that I was doing at that agency and so I decided to start trying to shift things a little bit. I approached the agency with some ideas for doing allowing remote work and some other stuff. And my ideas kept getting shot down and so I got demotivated.

I was building this consulting practice on the side, and I was helping clients on nights and weekends. And eventually just decided, “I’ve got to grow my consulting practice into my own agency.” I had Simple Tiger then, but it was still just a little consulting business. It wasn’t until I brought on my brother Shawn, and he and I really joined forces and decided to actually start hiring a team and kind of adding more clients and offering a service that included implementation and production of content, links and things like that – Beyond just the consulting that I had been doing so far. So, when we decided to do that, we opened a whole new can of worms which was building a marketing agency and that was really fun. But I never expected to be here, to be honest. I didn’t plan to be here, but I would not want to be anywhere else. I absolutely adore what we’ve been able to create together and what we’ve been handed.

Jeremiah’s Business Lessons Learned

Paul: So, what would be… Well, I’ll ask that in just a moment. But what’s your business lesson learned or unanticipated event or “Oh my gosh! I didn’t realize that part of business!” Or staring your own business?

Jeremiah: Hmmm. That’s a good question. I think that being the somewhat visionary entrepreneur that I am, where I have these little ideas in my mind of what I’d like to create, having those get shot down so many times by the harsh realities of the world, was at times, demotivating. But it has, over time, educated me to realize that the world wants a thing and will pay for it, so you build it and you win money and sometimes that may not be as enjoyable to do because it may not be as enjoyable as the big grand grandiose idea that you originally had. But in doing it and in building it, on the way to delivering it, once you start to see it work and once you start to see people happy with what you’ve created, it suddenly can become much more enjoyable, especially given that the great idea that you had was just getting shot down. It was not getting validated.

So for me, I think you know, I started Simple Tiger as an agency that did everything. It was web design, logos, business cards, it was awful. I was doing way too much. When I narrowed it down to SEO, that helped me a whole ton. Simple Tiger actually started growing. And then we narrowed it down from just SEO to just software companies, Saas companies specifically. It got super narrow and I was able to have basically almost the exact same conversation on every call with clients and deliver better results, deliver a deeper product, a more innovative solution on everything, every time, for each new client to the point now, our customer success is so high and so strong that I am just elated every time I sign on a new client because I know I’m about to have a new best friend or a new happy customer. Whereas before there was a lot of heartbreak in everything because I was kind of managing a mess that I created and not really delivering happiness to my clients as much. So, I think for me, to answer your question, the challenge and the “ah ha” moment was, for me, to develop something the world wanted versus something I wanted to develop. If that makes sense.

Advice For Starting Your Own Business

Paul: Yep. I get it. What would be your best piece of advice for somebody out there saying, “I want to do that?”

Jeremiah: If by “that” they mean start a marketing agency?

Paul: No, I mean more general than that. There are all sorts of specifics in every different vertical and people are probably listening and saying, “No, no, tell us that.” No I mean, really everybody has their own ideas for businesses or those that have them, have them. What would be your advice, warning, caution, whatever it might be?

Jeremiah: So, for me, from my angle, my last name is Smith and I often times think of myself as what you would consider kind of an old-fashioned smith. A trade person who works with their hands to create something. A technician to a degree. And so, I think of myself as a technician often times. And sometimes, if I really want to get into a groove with my agency, I just jump in at the technician level and do some technical work and I’m like, “Ahhh!” I feel like I belong. It just works for me. I think that’s just in my blood, so my recommendation is probably going to come from that angle.

If you find yourself doing some level of technical work, whether you’re with a company or you’re an employee of a company or an organization or you volunteer in some area of your life. Maybe you’re not doing some technical work for your professional trade or anything like that but you’re doing technical work in some volunteer area or you’re consistently helping family or friends or something like that. And it’s something that you actually, when you get into it, you just know that you’re good at it. I recommend crafting something around that.

It’s something like, there’s this Venn diagram but it’s made of three circles, if you can kind of envision this with me for a moment. One circle is something that you’re good at. Another circle is something that you enjoy doing and then the third circle is something that the market itself wants. Alright. Now the market wanting it doesn’t mean there’s no competition there. A lot of people hear that and think, “ohhh, no competition.” No, you want competition, trust me, because if there’s no competition there, you’ve either struck gold which is highly rare or there’s no money there. No body wants it. So that third circle has to be a good market.

In the middle of these three circles – what you’re good at, what you love doing, and what the market wants – is what I think you ought to build a business around. And if that business is just you, doing freelance consulting work for a while, do just that. And don’t build anything else out of that unless, at some point, you feel compelled to move on to the next step and grow up from a consulting company into something else. But for me, actually, I got to be honest, while I love running my agency as it is right now, my second favorite job I ever had was when I just did consulting and Simple Tiger was not producing content, not implementing things. I was just consulting companies. I really, really enjoyed doing that.

Now during those days, I was the technician and I was the only guy so if anything was wrong, it was one hundred percent my fault. Nowadays, I run my agency and I try to remain humble where I can, so if something does go wrong at my agency, I still take responsibility for it. And I’m still to blame for it but in those days there was not a system there was just me. So, it was a little stressful and if I didn’t go out and do sales, I didn’t have sales. And so that was really hard too. But yeah that’s what I would do. I would look at that tri-circle Venn diagram I came up with there and find out what’s in the middle and then build a business around that.

Jeremiah’s Business Book Recommendations

Pual: Now, good business books or books that you would recommend reading, one or two?

Jeremiah: One or two? That’s tough. Well, coming from the marketing angle, one would definitely be, “Start with Why” by Simon Sinek, which if you want to, you could just watch the Ted Talk. Its eighteen minutes. Look up “Simon Sinek Ted Talk Start With Why.” Then the second one is probably, “Tribes” by Seth Godin, where he talks about knowing your tribe and appealing to your tribe. Your audience basically is what he means. So those are my two favorite business books from a marketing perspective.

From a business perspective, I’m just going to leave “The 4-Hour Workweek” and its hall of fameness. That would be one of them, but I don’t want to recommend that one because everyone would probably say that. Something by Peter F. Drucker. “The Effective Executive” most likely would be one of my number one business books. Absolutely incredible and eye opening and some simple things about business.

And then actually some of the writings by Edward Deming as highlighted by Tony Robbins in his book “Awaken the Giant Within.” I recommend that book personally. I think it’s a fantastic book but in that book, he goes into Edward Deming and defining some business principals and Edward Deming’s business principles were just stellar and they’re so awesome and they’re still completely applicable today. I think they’re elegant. I think they’ll probably apply for the next fifty to a hundred years potentially, so I’d highly recommend people study that.

Just a quick highlight and a reason why you should study Edward Deming. He went to the big three auto manufactures in the 60s and said, “Hey, here are some things that you guys should do instead of what you’re doing right now, that are going to make you behemoths in the automotive industry forever.” And this was the 60s. The automotive industry was booming. We just came out of the 50s, where we had this kind of credit thing being created and people were buying cars on credit now and they couldn’t manufacture cars fast enough in the US. So, the three auto manufactures laughed him out of the room. So, he went to Japan, and he talked to Honda, Toyota and Nissan, who nowadays are eating our lunch. They listened to him. They paid him, and they implemented what he said. So, I think you should listen to Edward Deming. He’s incredible. He will teach you things that apply to your tiny small business all the way up to Toyota sized companies.

Paul: Excellent. Yeah, I’ve had a lot of experience with Deming and he definitely has some insight. Some amazing insight.

What’s With The Name “Simple Tiger?”

Paul: Okay, final question. Maybe. We’ll see. What’s with the name Simple Tiger?

Jeremiah: Ah. Good question and I like it. My father always used to call me “Tiger” growing up. And when I was thinking about starting a marketing agency or consultancy, I wanted a name that would stick in someone’s mind. And so, one of the key things or components you could have in marketing is something that’s not conceptual but is concrete. So, think “Apple.” Right? That sticks in your mind. You see it visually. Tiger was that for me. I wanted to carry with it a differentiator that applied to business that wasn’t so esoteric as tiger. How do you apply “tiger” to business? I wanted to take something complex, like search engine optimization, and simplify it and make it simple. And I wanted to apply the 80/20 principle, the Pareto Principle to everything. And I saw that as simplicity. And I saw simplicity as this art form where if I can master simplicity in what we do, then that would make me happy and so Simple Tiger thus was born. “Tiger” kind of carrying the effective component of our brand and “simple” kind of carrying the, I guess, the simplicity element of our brand.

Paul: Cool. Very cool.

Closing Advice

Paul: Well, we’ve been speaking with Jeremiah Smith of Simple Tiger and he’s an SEO expert and they’re an SEO agency and as you can tell there’s a lot of value here, in what he said. So, as you’ve been listening, we’ve been throwing out book names and different things you should go and look at. All of that will be in the shownotes so I encourage you to look there. You’ll find links to Simple Tiger and a way to actually contact Jeremiah. So, Jeremiah, thank you very much! Is there anything you want to close out and say as we sort of wind down here?

Jeremiah: I guess, if I could just leave everybody with one marketing maxim, it’s something I really like. I think the CMO of Ammex said this about branding specifically. So, if you’re dealing with your brand messaging right now and everything right now, this is just a really cool piece of advice. It’s really simple. “Be clear, not clever, be different, not better.”

And I love that because the idea there is that a lot of brands try to come up with some clever name or clever lingo or clever brand messaging and end up confusing people and not actually connecting. So, instead of being clever, just be clear. Be very clear about what it is that you do and who you are. And then, don’t be better, be different because better is completely subjective but different is very objective and you can speak directly to a person’s concerns if you can differentiate yourself into their category. And then, that’s how you can appeal to people. So that my favorite marketing kind of maxim.

Paul: Very cool. Well, I want to thank you. Thank you for spending the time with us. And who knows, maybe we’ll have you back soon.

Jeremiah: That would be awesome. I’d be happy to come back. Thank you so much for everything, Paul. It was an honor to be here.

Paul: Alright, thank you.

More Episodes:

This is the Part 5, the final episode of our podcast with Jeremiah Smith!

If you missed any of the previous episodes from our conversation with him, you can listen to them here:
Part 1: An Introduction to SEO With Jeremiah Smith
Part 2: SEO: Google & Artificial Intelligence
Part 3: SEO: How To Create Content For Your Business
Part 4: Is SEO Always Worth It?

Show Notes:

Is SEO Always Worth It?

On Episode 89 of The Edge of Innovation, we’re talking with SEO expert Jeremiah Smith. He’s answering the question “Is SEO always worth it?”

Sections

How Fresh Should Your Content Be?
Accuracy of Content to Searcher Intent
Commercial Intent
When SEO Fails Expectations
Three Parts of SEO: Technical, Content, and Link Building
Developing a Content Calendar
SEO Doesn’t Have To Take a Long Time
Go At Your Own Pace With SEO
Is SEO Always Worth it?
Call To Action
How To Call Customers To Action
Tools For Marketing Automation
Closing
More Episodes
Show Notes

Is SEO Always Worth It?

How Fresh Should Your Content Be?

Paul: Welcome to another edition of The Edge of Innovation. Today we’re talking with Jeremiah Smith with Simple Tiger. He’s the founder and CEO. So, you’re an SEO company.

Okay. So, you talked about this content as being key. So, an SEO plan – is this fair to say? – an SEO plan without content is not an SEO plan?

Jeremiah: Yes. Insofar as Google is concerned, that’s correct. I would say that that could be a broad descriptor of SEO as well because of Amazon clearly needing content, iTunes search needing some content. But yeah. Generally speaking, you’re absolutely right. If you don’t have content in your SEO plan, then you just don’t have an SEO plan.

Paul: Okay, then how fresh does that content have to be?

Jeremiah: That really depends actually. Freshness is a powerful tool where the content needs to be fresh. But if we think about who has dominated Google search results for the longest time, that’s Wikipedia. And a lot of the content in Wikipedia, though it is user generated and created and optimized and it gets updated frequently and stuff like that, there are pages of content in Wikipedia that have kind of sat there for a long period of time and consistently dominate.

Paul: Good point.

Jeremiah: So, we need to keep that in mind. I’m sure if we searched for The Declaration of Independence in Google, and we read it now – its’s probably on Wikipedia – it’s probably not much different than it was five to ten years ago. It may have changed a little bit but the freshness of that does not corelate to how well it ranks.

Paul: Sure.

Jeremiah: So, freshness is important but it’s a system of factors. It is almost kind of like saying something like, “Why do you like vanilla ice cream?” or, “Why do you like jazz?” That’s hard to answer, right?

Paul: Right. Yeah.

Jeremiah: It’s a system of feelings. It’s a system of things in you that cause you to make that decision. With Google, it’s not so much feeling but there are a lot of factors that are influencing it, and in varying degrees, that aren’t outwardly published by Google. They don’t give their full science away. They give an idea of their science away, so we have an idea. But we’re constantly reverse engineering to kind of nail that down.

Accuracy of Content to Searcher Intent

Jeremiah: If I were to give you my list of top-ranking factors, kind of reverse engineered, from what I’ve discovered through doing this, the first one on that list would probably be Accuracy of Content to Searcher Intent. So, accuracy of the piece of content that you have to the searcher’s intent to the keyword that they searched. So that’s really hard to determine. If you don’t have Google to use right away, but if you do have Google to use, which you do, then you can go ahead and search the keyword that you want to target and see what does come up. And you’re going to find that the searcher intent for content, at the top of Google, is kind of clear.

If you’re looking for best pizza shop near me for example, then Trip Advisor is probably going to give you the top fifteen pizza shops, but that’s going to be the organic listing. Google Maps is probably going to give you a few pizza shops that are highly rated and stuff like that. So, Google is ultimately going to do their best to figure out what you want based on what you’ve asked.

Paul: Yeah. Interesting. It’s a different way to think in some ways. You have to sort of think about how the organization happens. I liked your analogy of organizing the spice cabinet because you would organize it so that you could find it. And that’s very cool.

Commercial Intent

Paul: So now we talked about fresh content and that not being super critical. Because if we’re writing a story about Lincoln, the facts about Lincoln haven’t changed all that much. He was a certain height and he was the certain president and excreta, excreta.

Jeremiah: Right.

Paul: I can see that. Does the content have to have a churn to it, or does it have to have more? So, we’re not talking about Lincoln. We’re talking about the headphones we sell or the semiconductors that we sell, and so does that need to have an ever fresh look or feel really from a content point of view?

Jeremiah: It’s so frustrating to try to understand SEO sometimes or to, in my position, try to explain it because I hate when I get these answers, but it depends.

Paul: Okay. That’s fair.

Jeremiah: But I’m going to go into why that depends. So, if we are talking about Lincoln, everyone is pretty much going to say the same kind of stuff and very rarely is new information going to come out. However, if we are talking about headphones, that’s in the technology, retail space where things actually change pretty quickly. A new product comes on the market by Sony, another one comes on the market by Bose, another one by Sennheiser. It happens a few times a year, every year and everyone goes crazy about all of it. So, there’s a lot of new stuff happening in that industry and so there’s a lot of frogs leaping over each other there. So, if you’re going to play that game, you have just got to get used to being a frog playing leap frog there.

Whereas if you are a historian and you’ve written some really good stuff about Lincoln and you’ve published it, and it took you a while to get it out there. Well, guess what? You’re playing a game where a lot of people are not leap frogging each other. It’s just kind of sitting there. So, you’re in a lucky space if you’re a great historian and have written a long piece of content about that because you’re probably going to rank well, and you don’t have much competition to worry about. But then again, what is your commercial intent? What kind of money are you expecting to get for it? I hate to say that but at the end of the day, that’s where Google really starts playing commercial value, especially for me, a marketing agency.

Paul: Right.

Jeremiah: My clients all have a commercial intent with what they’re doing. In my client spaces we have a lot of competition. We have a lot of people playing leapfrog and we just have to help our client be a good racehorse, or I should say a good leapfrog in the game of it and grow some strong legs which comes down to building content, building links, ensuring user engagement is there, and that that searcher intent is accurate to the piece of content. So, it really depends on the space that you’re in, is the sort answer.

When SEO Fails Expectations

Paul: How do you see both good examples and poor examples of companies that sell the SEO magic, if you will, and then don’t fulfill the expectations? Because I would imagine, that an uneducated SEO buyer has unrealistic expectations.

Jeremiah: One hundred percent! And I see it way more than I’d like to. Unfortunately, it’s a situation in my industry where I’m kind of acting and serving as really an ambassador of my industry, to a world of businesses who have been burned by or have a bad taste in their mouth around SEO and working with an agency or someone who says they know anything about SEO. I liken it much to snake oil which sells the magic cure two hundred years ago, where some people probably do have the cure but their reputation and the likelihood that people buying from them, have been ruined by so many other people claiming they had the cure and being completely wrong about it.

And so, I think the same thing is true with SEO. I really work to try to take people into that new line of thinking and make that paradigm shift that I’ve watched you follow me through with the spice cabinet and Amazon and iTunes and showing that search engine optimization applies to a lot of things.

My favorite example of search engine optimization is using a library. Any one of us can go into any library in the United States that we have never been to and in a matter of a couple of minutes, find a single word, on a single page, in a single book, in a single section because of the way the library is structured, and books are structured with tables of contents and indexes.

So, I think really, we as a people in SEO, we owe it to the community at large to first be clear with everyone with what all SEO includes and is and requires to do properly. And then if you are a practitioner in the SEO realm in some way, pick an angle of what you want to specialize in and do it well. If you do want to be a generalist that’s fine. You’re most likely going to fall into the camp of doing a lot of consulting in a bunch of random tactics and tasks that add up to a SEO effort but ultimately, it’s a good idea to kind of pick a specialty like we have and zero in on it.

So, within the SEO space, we focus a lot on keyword research, content strategy, and link building. With that, we then produce content and build links and we find that according to our strategies if we do that properly, our clients just see really good results. And so that’s our specialty within SEO. But I only get to that after kind of laying everything out for my clients and showing them first and foremost what SEO is made up of so that they can feel comfortable and confident analyzing us and other agencies. It’s funny how many agencies go straight in, assuming that people know what SEO includes and then sell them on an aspect of it, and then the client buys it thinking that they’re getting the full part. The most common thing that we find is that a lot of companies out there claiming they know SEO, are just doing the technical portion.

Three Parts of SEO: Technical, Content, and Link Building

Jeremiah: If I break SEO down, I break it into three major categories – Technical, Content, and Link Building. The technical portion is, to me, as good as grading the property you’re about to build your house on and maybe laying the foundation. But that’s as far as it gets with technical. All the technical in the world is still not going to help you compete with really good content out there. It’s just going to help you have a platform to publish your content on and do it effectively. But you still have to publish the content and build links to the content. A lot of companies out there sell SEO and then just deliver the technical portion and the clients are scratching their heads because nothing is happening to their content, nothing is happening to their links. They don’t know anything about needing either one of those anyway but regardless, they’re upset anyway because rankings, traffic, and conversions haven’t improved. So, they fire the SEO agency and say SEO doesn’t work.

Paul: Right.

Jeremiah: So that’s the most frustrating scenario that I hear about all the time. And I have to take them and say, “Look, that’s just the beginning. You’ve taken the first step in a thousand step journey of building content and of building links.” So, that’s really what it is going to take to see the results you want.

Paul: The technical thing is like carpentry. It’s not terribly difficult but a good carpenter is worth his weight in gold.

Developing a Content Calendar

Paul: So, do you develop a content calendar? Or how deliberate is that? Or is it just, “I’ll write an article about this.”

Jeremiah: Oh, it’s very deliberate. So, we don’t espouse the idea of producing content for the sake of producing content or because somebody told you that you need to. Content ought to be produced to answer questions and problems within your industry that people are already asking. And if you do a good job of answering every single keyword with a solid piece of content, and maybe even a few different pieces of content attacking that keyword from different angles, then you’re doing a fantastic job.

I think one of my favorite examples of a content production powerhouse in the world is HubSpot. Of course, in my space, they’re very dominate. They’re a marketing automation platform. But if you look up anything about marketing, odds are you’re going to come across a HubSpot article at some point, that’s going to attack that very subject very well. Because they just do a good job of producing content. So, it needs to fall under a content strategy and that content strategy can begin in one place.

When we do SEO for a client, we will start a content strategy. We will deliver that content strategy, but that strategy document is just the beginning. We have what we call the content road map which comes after the strategy and the road map includes some of the things you referred to. A content calendar, where we say, “Okay, we have a calendar.” For us, it’s not like a schedule of two articles per month, every month. It’s more of we need to cover this list of keywords with content. Here’s how many pieces of content at the minimum we’re going to have to produce. Now let’s try to fit that into a calendar because a client only has so much budget. They can’t afford to have a hundred pieces of content written this month and neither can we scale up quickly and do that as effectively.

SEO Doesn’t Have To Take a Long Time

Paul: Let me interrupt. Even if we could scale and they did have the money, would it be wise to? Would it overwhelm?

Jeremiah: Actually, it can be. It can be wise to. So, there are some case studies in our industry of a few companies that have done that and we actually have a case study of a client who did that. On our site we have a case study for Segment where we did an SEO project and they had about a hundred and fifty pages that we did some massive optimization on very quickly. And we leveraged their internal content team, broke it out into sections, and we gave them a whole bunch of recommendations for those pages. They edited those pages. Then we built some links to those pages and then in the span of a couple of months, we improved their organic search traffic very fast, very effectively, to the order of about a hundred and twenty eight percent increase in organic search traffic. So, you can dump a flood of content on Google and if it’s well done and it’s according to a strategy, you’re going to reap the rewards and you’re going to reap them fast.

Paul: Well, that’s cool.

Jeremiah: The problem there is mainly too full. Number one, budget. It’s all manual. So, producing that content is not something that happens automated. I do not recommend any kind of automated content for SEO purposes. It might work in other capacities but from an SEO perspective, I don’t recommend it. So manual handwritten, hand edited, human content is key. And that takes time which costs money. If you pay someone to do it, and then scale, usually to get a hundred and twenty pieces of content quickly, usually one person can’t do that so we have to scale that out across a team of five, ten, fifteen people. Break it up into five, ten pieces each, something like that. And then we’ve got a scalable system to quickly build it. But that’s only if we have the resources in place. Where Segment already had a team of people that could handle that.

Paul: Sure.

Jeremiah: So, that’s a great example. I’ve seen examples where a guy named SEO Nick – He goes by SEO Nick, Nick Eubanks. He’s huge in the SEO community – He published a case study where he took a site and he built the site and built all the content, did all the keyword research, did all the content strategy and everything before launching the site. He had had the domain name but nothing on it. And he built all this and then launched on the domain name, and within like a month or two months’ time, had something on the order of a hundred thousand hits a month flowing in. Within a month to two months. 30 to 60 days. That is insane! And that required a massive effort, but I think he did the whole thing just to see first and foremost, how quickly you can actually show results from zero to one hundred with SEO and kind of break this theory that SEO has to take a long time. Of course, it took a lot of work, a lot of effort, a lot of money internally to produce all that content structure and everything, but once he hit publish, it just worked.

Paul: Okay, so now that’s great. I would not have believed it if you had not taken me through it. But if Nick had not done that in one big turn it on and it’s all there, if he had done the same thing but metered it out month by month, do you think he would have gotten to the same number of hits, or page views?

Jeremiah: Yes, I think he would have. I think he would have gotten the same number of page views. It would have just taken the total amount of time that it took him to hit publish on each one of those pages metered out and then the time for Google to actually index, simulate, and determine the value of all that content allowed to rank. So, Google can move very fast especially if Google sees a hundred and fifty thousand view urls on a site that is a huge site like eBay. Guess what? All of those urls can show up on Google within an hour or two. So, Google can move exceptionally quick. And all those pages, by the way, can rank because Google has a relationship with eBay that is like chocolate and peanut butter. So, we have to keep that in mind that that can happen. But then, the alternative scenario of spreading it out over a long period of time is why most people say SEO takes a long time. Well, because it took you a long time to do everything necessary for SEO to work.

Go At Your Own Pace With SEO

Paul: Right. Okay. Good insight. But that’s also somewhat of a comfort because it means if you go at your own pace, you’re not doomed to failure.

Jeremiah: Exactly. And that was one of the most exciting things that got me into SEO twelve years ago, or over twelve years ago. I was working for a small mom and pop shop who hired me to build their site and then after their site was built, they were happy with it and they wanted it to show up in Google. And I said, “Well, look. I don’t know anything about this new SEO thing. I’m going to teach myself here. I just discovered it. But if you guys don’t mind, I will spend every day practicing what I’ve learned, to try and get it to show up in Google well and we’ll see what happens.”

And I was very lucky and blessed that they agreed and said, “You know what? Yeah. Do it. But it has got to show results and if it doesn’t show results, we’re going to stop doing it.” So, I was like alright cool! So, I got to work on it and I spent eight hours a day inside a small mom and pop shop that sold ATVs and dirt bikes to retailers throughout the country, trying to get them to show up for the keywords they needed. And with a six-month effort, we added two million dollars onto their four million dollar revenue, just from organic search.

Paul: Wow!

Jeremiah: So, that dedicated effort internally, allowed me to work – and by the way, that was me teaching myself by doing this. That wasn’t even me knowing how to do it yet. – So, yes. You can work at your own pace with SEO and that’s probably my favorite thing about it is, whatever your pace is, you’re going to have proportional, directly proportional results to that.

Paul: Interesting! So, we’re going to shift gears here in just a moment, but do you think that we fundamentally interact with the world differently now that we have Google? I mean, I think the answer is implicitly yes, because if I’m doing anything…. That’s really a stunning fact. Adding two million dollars, adding fifty percent more revenue to a dirt bike company.

Jeremiah: Right, yeah.

Is SEO Always Worth it?

Paul: So, it’s like, wait a minute. What excuse can I use that I can’t do that in my company. I am a semiconductor manufacturer, or I’m a bicycle shop or I’m this or I’m that. So, I guess, if you’re trying to talk yourself out of SEO and you say well nobody that wants my products – let’s talk about the semiconductor stuff – is searching on Google. That seems like a silly thing to say.

Jeremiah: It’s a very rare scenario but it does happen from time to time. But it is rare.

Paul: So, can you think of a business that you would be able to call out that you would be able to say, “No it’s probably not worth doing.”

Jeremiah: And even with those, there’s an angle where you could show up because people are searching CFO headhunter, CIO head hunter, so there is still an SEO angle. You really – Aw man, I hate to give this answer – Again, it depends. It depends on the potential value or ROI that you’re going to get in return from doing SEO as to whether or not it’s worth it to do.

Now the general question of, “Are there industries where there is just no search volume?” That’s so extremely rare that I can’t think of one. I can’t really come up with a good example of one of where it wouldn’t make sense to do SEO because of search volume. But I think in places where ROI is key – small local realtors, small local interest sales people – that both work under agencies… So, like a real estate agent or an insurance agent that works under a major insurance firm. Those are examples where there is definitely search volume and it is cut through. And you want to talk about leap frog? Those frogs are killing each other to try and outrank each other.

So the value there in my opinion, for the small independent realtor or insurance agent, is not there from an SEO perspective. I would recommend going to networking events and talking to people face to face and stuff like that before investing in SEO for those types. So, I don’t serve those business models mainly because of that, because it just doesn’t work as well. So, that’s the most common scenario I think, is the cost to benefit analysis and breaking that down.

Call To Action

Paul: So, now, you get the people there, they’re viewing the content. It’s good content, but don’t you have to have a call to action.

Jeremiah: Right, yeah. The call to action needs to take people down the path also of becoming a customer so in some cases – I mean, you always need to have the option of becoming a customer quickly, kind of like the fast lane in self-checkout – But I think that there does need to be this slower option as well, where we’re carefully, steadily building relationship and nurturing our leads along into having a relationship with us.

And then, if you do it right, you have this staggered approach of different scenarios of where there is the long sell person, there’s the medium sell person and there’s the quick sell person. The quick sell clicks “Schedule Demo” or just hits “Contact Us” and calls a phone number and says, “I want to buy it. Here’s my credit card.” The medium sell says, “Put me on a demo. I’d like to look at it and then after the demo you’re probably going to have to send me stuff and I’m probably going to have to have some phone calls and answer a few questions.” And the long sell person wants to read blog articles and collect used letters and consider five different companies over the course of six months and things like that.

So, I think if you’re offering all those different scenarios then your SEO efforts are going to be best suited by already having those assets and opportunities in place. Because no matter where someone is at, in the buying cycle, if you’re bringing them in to that SEO topical source then you’re feeding them through a large funnel that you’ve set up, that takes in to consideration where they might be in their buying cycle.

How To Call Customers To Action

Paul: How do you, as an agency, help a customer deal with that? So, we’ve got the person to the site, we’ve got a “Buy Now” button somewhere there, but how do you actually, technically help them fulfill the call to action because that’s outside of SEO?

Jeremiah: Yeah, so helping them fulfill the call to action that I forgot to, I guess, mention. What I meant by taking them through that process of going through the funnel is the call to action can be a diverse set of calls to action. The most obvious call to action is buy from us. The medium term is going to be schedule a demo and that kind of thing where we’re maybe advertising the demo a little bit more on our site with content talking about what the demo is going to include and what you’re going to get out of it. So, we’re kind of selling that demo really well.

And then other calls to action, like on a blog such as when a person gets to the end of a blog article. HubSpot highly recommends putting a call to action at the end of a blog article that suggests another piece of content that’s larger on that same subject, that goes deeper into it, because if a person read all the way to end of that piece of content, they’re so heavily devoted and they’re right at the point where they’re probably going to be more open to reading more about that same thing. It’s kind of like a movie that ended too quickly and people are sitting there watching the credits, waiting for the last moments, the after credits scene to roll. They could have used more movie. You know?

Whereas, these people could use more content, so suggest an eBook or a white paper or a pdf download or another longer article, but in order to capture that longer article, I’m going to capture your email in order to give that to you. And I’ll just send that to you really quick. Also, you’re going to get a follow up email from me a couple days later with another piece on the same subject and kind of take you through the process of guiding you deeper into the funnel. So those are some calls to actions that we recommend at the very least. At the very least, capture emails on your site somewhere.

Tools For Marketing Automation

Paul: Do you implement that for customers? That actual conversion funnel? What tools do you use for that? What tools do you recommend?

Jeremiah: So, we don’t implement that for our clients. There are so many good tools out there and we try to kind of remain a little platform agnostic so we can work with whatever client platform they’re on. But we inevitably run into scenarios where we just don’t like the platforms they are on sometimes. And so, we do steer them towards something a little better. I always recommend HubSpot because they’re just a great tool. I’m not a HubSpot partner agency by the way, so I’m not getting paid to say that, just so you know. But regardless they’re a great platform.

However, they are very expensive, so we do like to look at some other platforms as well. I think Marketo is also great. Also, expensive but less than HubSpot. Sharpspring is the one we just signed up for and that we’re getting on to and I’m really liking it so far. It’s pretty interesting.

So, we will recommend, based on our clients’ needs, a platform. A lot of people don’t need, for example, a CRM. So, a lot of our clients have the nine dollar a month software product that you need to sign up for. And they’re not going to waste time putting somebody on a sales call. Also, nobody’s going to get on a sales call to buy that product. It’s nine dollars a month. That’s a quick credit card decision. You swipe and move along. So, for them, their marketing automation platform and the tools they need for marketing, are just going to be different than that of maybe an enterprise supply change management software. So, that is probably going to require a lot more of a sales effort. So, the calls to action are going to be dramatically different. And then the implementation of those calls to action, those conversion items, the lead caption on that is just going to be different as well.

Closing

Paul: Well, we’ve been speaking with Jeremiah Smith of Simple Tiger. He’s an SEO expert, and they’re an SEO agency. As you can tell, there’s a lot of value here in what he said. As you’ve been listening, we’ve been throwing out book names and different things you should go and look at. All of that will be in the Show Notes so I encourage you to look there. You’ll find links to Simple Tiger and a way to actually contact Jeremiah.

Well I want to thank you, thank you for spending the time with us and who knows, maybe we’ll have you back soon.

Jeremiah: That would be awesome! I’d be happy to come back! Thank you so much for everything, Paul. It was an honor to be here.

Paul: Alright, thank you!

More Episodes:

This is Part 4 of our podcast with Jeremiah Smith. Stay tuned for Part 5, coming soon! Jeremiah Smith will be sharing his business advice with us!

If you missed any of the previous episodes from our conversation with Jeremiah Smith, you can listen to them here:
Part 1: An Introduction to SEO With Jeremiah Smith
Part 2: SEO: Google & Artificial Intelligence
Part 3: SEO: How To Create Content For Your Business

Show Notes:

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