On Episode 78 of The Edge of Innovation, we’re talking with Dan Frasier, co-founder of Cornerstone Commissioning Inc., about building control systems and continuous commissioning.
Tag: building
What is Construction Commissioning? With Dan Frasier
On Episode 77 of The Edge of Innovation, we’re talking with Dan Frasier, co-founder of Cornerstone Commissioning Inc., about construction commissioning.
Show Notes
The Cornerstone Commissioning Inc. Website
About Dan Frasier
About Cornerstone Commissioning
Find Cornerstone Commissioning on Twitter
Find Cornerstone Commissioning on LinkedIn
Find Dan Frasier on LinkedIn
Cornerstone Commissioning’s Blog
“The Importance of Communication During the Commissioning Process”
“Why The Construction Industry Needs Commissioning?” by Dan Frasier
Link to SaviorLabs Assessment
Sections
Introduction
What is Commissioning in the Construction Industry?
Verifying the Performance of a Building: What A Commissioner Does
Specializing in Biomedical Research and Infectious Disease Research Facilities
Making Sure Systems are Functioning: APV — Annual Performance Verification
Who Needs a Commissioning Service?
Testing and Fixing Commissioning Issues
More Episodes
What is Construction Commissioning? With Dan Frasier
Introduction
Paul: Hello, and welcome to the Edge of Innovation. Today we’re talking with Dan Frasier from Cornerstone Commissioning Services. Right? Is it Cornerstone Commissioning?
Dan: Cornerstone Commissioning, Incorporated.
Paul: Okay. Cornerstone Commissioning, Incorporated.
What is Commissioning in the Construction Industry?
Paul: So, I’ve known you a while, and I have to honest. I don’t know what Cornerstone Commissioning means. What does commissioning mean?
Dan: So commissioning is a process that’s used in the construction industry to verify the performance of buildings. So it’s — mostly for us anyway — it’s mostly related to mechanical, electrical, and plumbing systems but also life safety. And we have a special focus on building control systems.
Paul: Okay. So let me think. So most ordinary people have maybe built a house, at the extreme. Do we do commissioning in a house?
Dan: We actually have done a few houses, but that would be a very high-end home.
Paul: So give me an example. You know, no names, nothing. Just what does it actually mean? So, they’re building a new school. Is somebody actually going to be doing the commissioning part of the new school?
Dan: Most schools today, if it’s a significant project, are going to have commissioning related to it. And there will be two primary types of suppliers of commissioning services. We are involved in the MEP, the mechanical, electrical, plumbing, life safety, building control side of things. The other version would be the building envelop, so the building enclosure. There are people that focus on the enclosure of the buildings for energy, for air tightness. And we have subs who do that work on some of our projects. That would be higher-end projects where it’s a net-zero building where it’s a highly energy-efficient building that actually may have some other kind of power generation with it so it never takes anything off the grid.
Paul: Interesting. We’ll get into that.
Dan: But you need a really good envelope to do that.
Paul: So, let’s step back. You’re really close to this. We’re talking to relatively ordinary people, and the local town is going to be building a new high school. And you’re saying there’s aspects to commissioning with that. The envelope, the outside walls and the roof.
Dan: Yes.
Paul: And even the floors?
Dan: Yes.
Paul: Okay. And then there’s also like the plumbing, electrical, mechanicals. The heat pumps and the heaters and furnaces and air conditioning systems. Am I accurate in that?
Dan: Yes, that’s accurate.
Verifying the Performance of a Building: What A Commissioner Does
Paul: Okay. So what do you do? I mean, does the architect sort of say, “We’re going to put all this stuff in”? And then you guys come back and make sure it works? Or do you make sure they put in the right stuff? What happens?
Dan: So, because we’re verifying the performance of a building and we want to make sure that that is verified relative to what the owner of the building really needs, the right way to integrate us into a project is during the design phase. And so the way that happens is typically — I would say over 90% of the time — a building owner is going to hire us directly. They’re going to hire the architects and engineers directly, and they’ll hire the contractors to actually build it. The reason we like to be hired during the design phase is because we get to know buildings so intimately — how well they perform — that during the design phase is the best time to start thinking about how well the building is going to operate to meet the owner’s needs. And so during the design phase, we’ll be reviewing the designs by the architects and engineers. And then some of the more complicated projects, we’re going to be hired to do a program evaluation as well. So we specialize in some pretty unique buildings. And so we’re going to ask questions that perhaps nobody thought to ask because we know how difficult it is to get this buildings to work right if they have mission-critical requirements.
Paul: Okay. So let me rehash that a little bit. So let’s say I’m the owner. Okay? And I say, “Gee, I want to build this private high school.” Or even I’m just going to build a high school. I have to hire an architect, a builder, and I imagine not engineers. The architect would hire the engineers?
Dan: Typically. Yeah, the design engineers work as a sub consultant to architects.
Paul: So I hire a builder; I hire an architect; and I hire a commissioning company like you guys.
Dan: Yes.
Paul: Who else do I have to have at that table? There’s four of us now. Me and those three guys.
Dan: That generally covers everything that you’re going to need. There may be some other unique things that would be permitting people or code-related people. And that usually falls under the architects and engineers.
Paul: Right. That’s what we’ve had an architect on the show before, and he sort of said that we help with that. We can help with that. So I’m trying to think. So I’ve got the architect. I turn to them and I say, “I really want it to look like this kind of building.” And I show them a picture of a building. And they say, “Great.”
And the builder is sitting there thinking about “Can I make that?” And “Can I make it at a reasonable price?”
And I say, “Gee, I want to do these kind of things in the building” to tell the architect. You know, I need a gymnasium. I need a lunchroom. I need science labs. And then you’re sitting there and hearing all of this, and you’re collecting all this list and saying, okay, science labs, heating, cooling, etc. And do you then say, “Well, what else are you going to do in it?” Do you actually get down to the functional use of it?
Dan: Yeah, very much so.
Paul: And say, “Uh, gee, do you want locker rooms?” Do you say, “Gee, do you want a wood shop or a cooking center?”
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Paul: And then, oh, well if you’re going to have a cooking center, you’ve got to have ventilation. So is that sort of your role in conjunction with the architect? Because the architect, I would imagine, if they said, “Oh, here’s the cooking center. Well, we’re going to put an island in. We’re going to put a vent in and all this.” How does that interaction occur?
Specializing in Biomedical Research and Infectious Disease Research Facilities
Dan: Well, the kind of buildings that we’re involved in are…The questions that we ask during the design phase usually elevates the level of attention to some of those things you’re talking about because we specialize in biomedical research facilities and especially in infectious disease research facilities.
Paul: Yeah. We don’t want to have a failure in that.
Dan: No. And so there are a lot of things that we’re going to ask about, systems that are going to support some of the unique requirements, like if they’re going to house animals or they’re going to do research with infectious diseases. And the air flow directions are important. And so there are a lot of things that people just don’t think about that we’re going to ask the lab directors and the environmental health and safety people about some of their testing requirements or performance requirements related to biocontainment, for example.
Paul: So I think your comment of saying there’s just a lot of things that people don’t think about is extremely at the crux of this. It’s very much the focus of… You know, when we’re ordinary people on the street thinking about oh, we’re going to do this, there’s a lot of things. When we talked to our architect friend, Benjamin Nutter in Topsfield, he sort of unmasked a lot of the things that you didn’t think of. And now you’re saying for a commercial building or for something that’s going to have all of these functions, there’s a whole set of layers that we might not understand. It sounds like not only do you call those into, to view, but then you actually validate them once they’re put in. If you were to value the sort of importance of what you do, which one is the most important? They’re both equally important, but, me saying, “Hey, you need good ventilation in here” is one thing. Or a scientist saying, “We need good ventilation,” they’re not going to know the specs. Do you guys know the specs and say, “Oh, we need this kind of ventilator”? And then what happens with that?
Dan: Yeah. So during the design phase, the people who we do repeat business for, they’ve relied on us to ask questions about the type of systems that are going in, some of the components related to it. A lot of it comes back to the performance verification criteria. So we actually have a document that’s call the PVC, the Performance Verification Criteria, and it’s essentially the pass-fail criteria that’s going to be used to measure whether or not a building meets the owners requirements.
So an example of that would be… It’s an infectious disease lab, and they want to know that they don’t have dirty air going out into the public areas.
Paul: Okay. Seems good. A good thing.
Dan: Seems like a really good idea. So, the actual delivery of that means that there are certain redundancies that have to be in place for your ventilation systems, for your power supply to the building. There usually would be an emergency generator. There will be uninterruptible power supplies that help certain things ride through that loss of normal power. And so there are components that we know have to be included in a building that may not even appear during the design phase. And we need to make sure those are there to make a unique requirement like that be met.
Paul: Right.
Making Sure Systems are Functioning: APV — Annual Performance Verification
Paul: So we’re sitting here just a few days after Hawaii announced that there was an incoming missile headed toward their island. And everybody is criticizing that to say how could that mistake could happen so easily. So it sounds like a lot of the things you’re doing — not necessarily in missile avoidance, or missile announcement — is to make sure that the systems that are put in place are actually going to function when they need to function.
Do you test them after they’ve been deployed? I mean, you hand over the keys to the building, are you guys done? Or do you have to retest them?
Dan: Some buildings we’re required to retest. Or I’ll just put it this way. Some buildings are required to be tested by the owners every year. Some owners will hire us to come back on an annual basis to do performance verifications. We call them APV — Annual Performance Verification, especially if it’s related to biocontainment laboratories.
Paul: What are the ones that don’t have you come back and do it? Do they do it themselves or…?
Dan: Some will do it themselves, but some of them just aren’t real critical. I’ve just talked to you quite a bit about biomedical research within infectious disease. That happens to be one of our primary areas of focus. But we do a lot of other kinds of buildings. Some of them are kind of fun buildings. We’ve done a done a passive house where it doesn’t have any power to it.
Paul: Really?
Dan: Because it’s a high performing house in New Hampshire. And we were doing a museum for a car dealer who’s getting all these exotic cars. And so that’s the kind of a thing that’s probably not going to be verified on an annual basis. Museums, a lot of museums as well.
Who Needs a Commissioning Service?
Paul: Are there needs? So we just talked about disease, and we’ve talked about a museum and a house. So there’s three radically different buildings there. I mean, who’s requiring doing this? Is it the owner saying, “I asked for it. I’m paying for it. I want to make sure it works”? Or is it the that the government is saying, “You need to make sure this stuff works”?
Dan: Well in the case of infectious disease research facilities, it’s Center for Disease Control.
Paul: Okay. So do you work with them?
Dan: We don’t work with them, but we work with the owners of these facilities who are going to be inspected by CDC.
Paul: I see. So that’s what’s going to happen. The CDC is going to come in and look at it, and they’re going to probably say, “Show us that this has passed.”
Dan: Yes.
Paul: And then they hand them your documentation.
Dan: Yeah.
Paul: Okay. Cool. Do you ever get involved in talking with them about that? You know, are there questions or is it just more of a paperwork issue?
Dan: It’s more of a paperwork issue. I mean, we’re recognized in the industry. And we’re speaking at the CDC Symposium in a couple of weeks. They have an international symposium on biocontainment, and we’re at that meeting every two years that they have it. So we’re recognized. We’re on the standards committees relative to defining what performance is required out of systems, especially ventilation systems.
Paul: They’d look at the documentation. Oh, Cornerstone did this. They’d be a relative comfort with that as opposed to Joe’s Commissioning. They’d say, “Who’s this? I don’t know Joe.” “What is this?” And they might dig deeper, but you’ve got a good reputation out there.
Dan: Yeah. And they’ll just look to make sure that our documentation shows that we tested the things that are required to a level of scrutiny that it ought to be taken to. Some of it’s prescriptive; some of it’s not. And so they rely on us to ask the right questions and test appropriately.
Testing and Fixing Commissioning Issues
Paul: And now, when you go and test, if you have a thousand tests that you have to perform, I can’t imagine they would all pass. There must be a lot of, “Oh, we’ve got to fix this. We’ve got to fix this. We’ve got to fix this.” I mean, just having had work done around my house, it’s like, “Oh, that’s not right.” Does that happen? Is there some churn in the work?
Dan: Yeah. So I’ll just say you, you’ve talked about three different kinds of buildings from a house to a museum to these high-end biocontainment facilities. I don’t care which one of those you pick, none of them are going to be done on time. I mean, that’s just the nature of construction projects because construction is complicated. But if, as you increase the sophistication and user requirements for a building, it elevates the challenge to get something finished on time.
Finishing it on time is one thing. You know, as a contractor will say, “I just packed up my tools. They’re in my truck. I’m leaving. I’m done.” Okay, that’s not usually defining when an owner of a building says, “Okay, it’s done.” That doesn’t usually coincide with the contractor leaving. There are usually things that still have to be done.
And when it comes to commissioning, making sure that a building actually works right, we find a lot of issues. We call them commissioning issues. And one of the most important aspects of working on the project — and this is a company philosophy that we have to work very closely with the owners, architects, engineers during the design phase. And then during the construction phase, we work with those same people but more even with the contractors.
And because it’s so hard to get some of this buildings to work right, we really have to engage people in a way that’s winsome and not irritate them. We don’t want people looking at us and saying, “Oh no. Here comes Cornerstone. Here comes the commissioning agent. All they want to do is document the living daylights out of any possible thing they find wrong, and then they’re going to get paid for finding all this stuff and making us look like we can’t get this building working.”
No. What we want to do, we go, “We are going to find issues. To the extent that we can resolve issues when we find them, that is part of our focus.” And so our interaction with these contractors is to build relationships, to work on this stuff together so when we find something, we brainstorm it, we document it, we hope to not have to have it addressed again on a repeated basis. But it really it’s a quality control process to get the building to do what the owner really needs it to do. And so when it’s done, we can all feel good that we’ve worked together to deliver an owner a building that really does what it needs to do with great proficiency.
Paul: Well, we’ve been talking with Dan Frasier of Cornerstone Commissioning. And we’re really delighted that you took the time to come in today and look forward to talking to you in the future.
Dan: Thank you, Paul. This has been a pleasure.
More Episodes:
This is Part 1 of our interview with Dan Frasier. Be sure to listen to Part 2 here! We’ll be talking about building control systems and continuous commissioning!
Architecture & Technology: Then & Now
Today on the Edge of Innovation, we are talking with Benjamin Nutter from Benjamin Nutter Architects, an architectural firm based in Topsfield, Massachusetts, about technology and how it’s changing the architectural field.
Dos and Don’ts of Designing
Today on the Edge of Innovation, we are talking with Benjamin Nutter from Benjamin Nutter Architects, an architectural firm based in Topsfield, Massachusetts. He’s sharing the dos and don’t of designing as well as some advice for aspiring architects.
An Architectural Approach to Design with Benjamin Nutter
Today on the Edge of Innovation, we are talking with Benjamin Nutter from Benjamin Nutter Architects, an architectural firm based in Topsfield, Massachusetts, about how architects approach design.
Show Notes
Benjamin Nutter Architects’ Website: benjaminnutter.com
Find Benjamin Nutter Architects on Twitter
Find Benjamin Nutter Architects on Facebook
Benjamin Nutter Architects Portfolio
Link to SaviorLabs’ Free Assessment
Sections
An Architecture Firm on the North Shore
What Kind of an Architect
The Architect’s Approach to Building
What is Design?
Specialized Work Versus a Range of Styles
When to Get an Architect and Why
Design Matters
An Architectural Approach to Design
Paul: Hi, I’m Paul Parisi with the Edge of Innovation, hacking the future of business, and I’m here today with Benjamin Nutter who, in our area, is well-renowned. So first of all, it’s a great name.
Ben: Oh, thank you.
Paul: It’s a great name. It’s an old New England name, Nutter.
Ben: Yes.
Paul: Is that true?
Ben: That’s right.
Paul: How far do you guys go back?
Ben: Actually to about 1635. And the unique name that first settled in the Dover, New Hampshire area — this is true — his first name was Hatevil.
Paul: Hatevil Nutter?
Ben: Hatevil Nutter. Yes.
Paul: Wow. Was it a hyphenated name, or…?
Ben: No.
Paul: So was that his middle name, Evil?
Ben: No, H-a-t-e-v-i-l was his first name.
Paul: Wow. That’s so cool. That’s only in New England.
Ben: Right. Right. No pressure there.
Paul: No. Yeah, exactly. What did he do when he grew up?
Ben: Most likely farming and timber, fishing — what most people would have done what they arrived.
An Architecture Firm on the North Shore
Paul: Well, that’s really cool. So now, you work primarily on the North Shore of Boston?
Ben: Yes, most of our clients.
Paul: And southern New Hampshire?
Ben: That’s right.
Paul: Now you’re an architect.
Ben: Yes.
Paul: I imagine in the world of architecture, that’s a pretty broad statement.
Ben: That is very true, especially in the 21st century.
What Kind of an Architect
Paul: Okay. And so do you specialize? Or, if you were talking to another architect, what would you say you focus on?
Ben: We focus on small commercial and residential. And within those two categories, we do nearly everything you could imagine. So in the small commercial area, it’s been from something as simple as an administration building from the Topsfield Fairgrounds, a funeral home that we did just several years ago in Middleton, and we just finished doing a sheep farm and cheesery in Boxford.
Paul: Oh, cool. Okay.
Ben: And then in the residential world, it could be a building as old as the late 1600’s or a net-zero energy or mid-century, modern-inspired home built today. So very, very diverse variety of architecture.
The Architect’s Approach to Building
Paul: So let’s talk about sort of the whole approach to building. So there’s a point at which a person says, “I want to build something — a business, a house, or whatever — and they make a decision, “I need to go to an architect.” But a lot of people don’t. So what’s that tipping point that you find in your experience? Because I know you probably have more design-sensitive clients than less design-sensitive. So in other words—
Ben: That is so true. In fact, that was the very obvious answer to that question, even for myself, was that if design did not matter to our clients, they would not be our clients. That is so true, Paul. You nailed the essential, that’s what drives most of our clients to work with an architect.
What is Design?
Paul: So what is design? I mean, because is it the colors? It’s not the furniture. You know, we see all these TV shows, and you see these places that are being rehabbed. And they say, “Well, we’re going to take this wall out and this. And then we’re going to do this.” Or, “We’re going to paint this.” And it really doesn’t come together until they stage it with the furniture.
Ben: And that’s part of what makes design such a subjective subject, if you will, because what might appeal to you as a design might not appeal to, say, Mike. You might prefer a contemporary design. Mike make buy an old home and restore it and renovate it, add on to it.
Paul: How do you navigate that with clients?
Ben: Well… I suppose most people arrive with some notion of what kind of design appeals to them. So that begins to narrow that down. And actually thinking about, one of the things that I feel that we’ve been especially good at over the decades is what I refer to as clarity of style. And what I mean by that is really clarity of architectural style. So if we’re working with…An example would be, right now we’re doing a house with a couple out on Great Neck in Ipswich, and it’s a design inspired by mid-century modern, which in their particular case, would be house informed by the sort of homes that were being built from 1930 to 1950.
Paul: Okay. So I’m not expert on those terms, and I would imagine most of our listeners aren’t. What is mid-century modern? You said ’30 to ’50. What are the look?
Ben: The look is really what some people would think of as contemporary. So it would be most likely flat roofs, a very horizontal look, large areas of glass, and really structures and shapes that are much more streamlined than, let’s say, a 1790 Georgian, the dwindling farmhouse that is the classic center entrance, center chimney colonial that is reproduced endlessly in subdivisions, for example.
Paul: Right. Okay. Good. That’s good. That’s a good handle for me to get and understand. Okay so you’re work on this. Do you have sweet spots of design for your company or favorites of your… I know probably you have personal favorites. So do you have sweet spots as a company?
Ben: That also is a great question, and it’s not an easy question to answer because I actually find a great interest in almost all of the architectural styles that are part of, really, the American history of architecture. So that could be something like the first homes built in the United States along the East Coast are referred to as First Period because it was the first period of construction. Those would be dramatically different than that mid-century modern that I was referring to.
I suppose what I find especially exciting and inspiring is to work well as an architect, as a designer, within each one of those styles.
Paul: Okay. Yeah. And have you done that?
Ben: Yes. Well, we think so.
Paul: Yeah. I would… But, I imagine there’s architects out there that probably only do first period.
Ben: You’re absolutely right.
Paul: “Why are you coming to me to do this mid-century modern? I don’t do that. Go speak to these people.” But the story is a little different with you. You’re coming in and saying, “Tell me what your design inspirations are, and we can take and sample from them or be pure to one inspiration.
Ben: Absolutely. Another way I sometimes describe that is the analogy of, we think of ourselves as the chameleon that can change color, depending on the design influence for each client’s project. And it wouldn’t be, I suppose, if we worked with only clients who desire mid-century modern. I don’t know that we’d be dreadfully disappointed that we never did a historic restoration, but there’s a certain added excitement about having the opportunity to work on designs all across the spectrum.
Specialized Work Versus a Range of Styles
Paul: Right. So now I know you’ve won a lot of awards — congratulations of that— just throughout New England for the work you’ve done. So it sounds like you have some satisfied customers. And in that, I mean, you haven’t tried and failed. You’ve actually tried and succeeded across this broad swath of, really, architectural styles. So that’s exciting to see. In the architecture world, are most of them like your company? This is, “Well, we can pretty much handle everything,” or are they more specialized?
Ben: There are some that are very specialized, certain firms around the metropolitan Boston area, I think of as really, as you say, specializing in a more contemporary architecture. Other firms where I first worked in Boston was one of the really original older names. Royal Barry Wills was an architect who really promoted the Colonial Revival style. Although, ironically, in the ’50s, there was another architect Hugh Stubbins who worked there who did very contemporary work at the time. But not well known by most people is that Hugh sort of got his wings at the Royal Barry Wills office. Royal Barry Wills Associates continues today to do mostly traditional work — so Colonial, maybe some Shingle-style work. And their reputation is so excellent in that area that it’s most likely that a client calling them would be seeking to do a traditional design. It doesn’t necessarily mean they would rule out doing a contemporary design, but that’s what they’re especially well known for.
And, Maryann Thompson is an architect in the Metropolitan Boston area that really specializes in contemporary design. And yet, there are other firms like Hutker Architects which is on the Cape and the Vineyard. They’re… I can’t speak for them, but I would say they’re more as we are, where they get the great interest in working with styles across the spectrum.
When to get an Architect and Why
Paul: Right. So now we talked a little bit about this sort of inflection point. Where I’m saying, okay, I want to build something. What’s that inflection point for me to choose an architect or just build it, show up with wood one day and build it, or however that happens. If I’m trying to make that decision, or I know somebody that’s trying to make that decision… They say, “Gee, I want to build a house. Should I just go buy a set of plans, or should I talk to an architect?” Those are two vastly different options. Can you speak to why or what sort of the decisions points are and the things I can, the sort of hooks that I can hang on to say, “Okay, if I want this, I need to go to an architect. And does it have to do with expectations and all that kind of thing? Sort of dig into that a little bit.
Ben: Yes. Well, there must be so many things that go through people’s heads when they’re thinking about that, especially for residential. Commercial, I would say, is a little bit more, just frankly, business like. So for the example of the client for who we did the funeral home, it was a person who already was in that business. They had other locations where they were operating. They kind of knew what their needs were and their functions. And the whole process is, I suppose I would just say it’s more business-like, because they already kind of know their model. What they needed was a new building on a new site.
Paul: Why wouldn’t they say…? Is it even plausible to say to a general contractor, “I have a building in this town. I want you to replicate it over there”?
Ben: You could. But in the 21st century, you also really would need a set of construction drawings so that you could then acquire building permits, go through the process as required in a local community. Sometimes that would require planning board and zoning board, conservation commission.
Paul: Do you help with that?
Ben: We do. Yes. We don’t do site engineering, but we do assist with and collaborate, and we bring in appropriate people to do that kind of specific work.
Paul: So I’d be hiring you and you would bring in the site engineer.
Ben: We can. We don’t always, but we can do that, because it’s very much a collaborative process. So that’s a process where it’s really not only satisfying the design to make sure that the building suits their needs — how many people do they want to accommodate when there’s a wake or a service, but then also just really putting the information together so there’s a clear set of drawings that describe the building itself. And that allows a general contractor, or if they’re doing bids, a number of general contractors to actually price the project. So it’s really a combination of design, municipal process, how they want to go about getting pricing for the construction, and then completing the construction and following a set of good quality, detailed drawings.
Paul: Okay, so that seems reasonable. But it seems like — I don’t know because I’ve only built one building in my life, had it built. You designed it, actually.
Ben: Yes.
Paul: But I guess the point I’m trying to understand is there’s a decision point. And I don’t know what I don’t know. And so I get a contractor, a general contractor who comes, “Oh, yeah. I can build you a barn.” Or, “I can build you a two-car garage.” That’s a fundamentally different decision to go with that than it is to go with an architect who is… I imagine some architects could just say, “Yeah, we have a standard two-car garage. How do you want to modify it, if you do at all. We have a shrink-wrapped garage.” And those are good things. Those are fine. But what is the personal design ethic? Do you find any thread that runs through the people that are coming and saying, “No, I want something special”?
Design Matters
Ben: Well we do. And, not to repeat the earlier comment necessarily, but the whole point about design matters. So whether it is a small project or existing home or a new house, I truly think what drives person to the design profession, as opposed to just a general contractor, is their desire for something that’s unique for their own needs and their family, if that’s their situation, their location.
So all of those could be elements of their decision-making process. But if they don’t, if their core is not that they really care passionately about the design, then I suspect they would just go online. In new construction, it would be a little bit easier to go online and acquire a set of building plans for a house of all sorts of styles, and then they could go directly to a general contractor. They might have to make some modifications to the drawings to suit codes that are local to the area, but you could go that route.
Whereas our clients are… Whether it’s a small project, a longer project, renovation, or a new construction, it’s very clear that they’re really driven by the passion for good design, and they want to work with someone who will partner and collaborate with them to achieve that design and then work that into the building construction.
Paul: So now, I make the decision. There’s two things I want to go after here, one is what happens after I make the decision to go with an architect. But I would imagine, before we answer that, there are a lot of risks I’m taking if I go and download plans off the internet, that aren’t clear to me. I mean, because if you were to say, “All things being equal, yeah, I’ll go buy the plans on…” I don’t know how much they cost to download. $500? $100? You know, whatever.
Ben: I have no idea. Right. It could be. Yes.
Paul: You know, so I buy these plans for whatever amount. But I don’t know what I don’t know. Now if I alternatively go to an architect, general contractors are a little different because they don’t have the best reputation in the world. You know, they’re not somebody that’s necessarily working on your behalf. They’re working to get the thing built as quickly as possible and as cheaply as possible so they can get on to the next project. I’m sure there’s some that aren’t as, maybe, crass as that. But there’s a difference of interest there. Maybe. Maybe I’m being unfair.
Ben: Well, fortunately, we partner with a lot of very good quality general contractors, whether they are small firm or large. And yes, they certainly, at the end of the day, they obviously, like any of us, they want to be able to put some money in their pocket. But they’re also rather passionate about the residential design arena, if you will. So we have great people we can collaborate with our clients.
Paul: Right. But that’s after I’ve made the decision to go with an architect.
Ben: Generally speaking, there is a rare occasion where a client may come to us, and they’ve already selected a general contractor. But that’s probably less than 10% of our clients. Might, might even be less than 5% of our clients. So usually part of our process is to help get them set up to collaborate with a particular general contractor. But back to your other question…
Paul: Well, actually, before we go there, let me get a little deeper on this because, I guess what I’m trying to pull out here — and tell me if I’m wrong — is that you’re really working solely to the benefit of the customer.
Ben: Yes. You’re absolutely right. And that’s what we should be doing.
Paul: And so that’s a unique role in this sort of ecosystem. Because if I go and download the plans, I don’t know what I didn’t know.
Ben: That’s right.
Paul: The minute I involve you, you expose me to everything I don’t know, if I need to. But you get me through the zoning board and all the different things and help assist with all that and bring in the right experts.