Author: Hannah

What’s Coola than a Doula?

September 19, 2017 / / 0 Comments

Today on the Edge of Innovation, we are talking with Enza Lilley, a doula from “A Mommy’s Friend Doula Service” about her experiences as a Doula and small business owner on the North Shore of Boston.

 

Show Notes

Enza Lilley’s Website: www.amommysfriend.com

Find Enza Lilley on Facebook

Enza Lilley in the Boston Voyage Online Magazine

Link to SaviorLabs’ Free Assessment

Sections

Relationships, Business or both?
Committed to Clients – Being on Call 24/7
First Time Moms and Second Time Moms
A Happy Story and a Sad Story
Writing a Book of Doula Stories
The Business of Doula-ing
Dissolving Barriers – Being a Christian Doula

 

What’s Coola than a Doula?

Paul: Well hi! I’m here today with Enza Lilley.

Enza: Hello!

Paul: She’s headquartered, or really works geographically out of the North Shore of Massachucettes into Boston and she helps moms bring new people into the world.

Relationships, Business or both?

If you’re an accountant, a plumber, a repair guy, you know, you do dressmaking or whatever it might be, people form relationships, and that’s the key thing. And it sounds like, from what you’re saying, is you had an affinity for both the birth process and children but also for relationships. So, and that’s why, I guess, you were saying it’s really a good fit, the idea of doula because you’re building a relationship and a bond.

So how many of these moms do you keep in touch with?

Enza: Wow. Probably about 180 of them. Facebook is great for that.

Paul: Wow. So you’ve shared a very important part of their life in bringing these people up. And you seem to, I just saw an article. What was the recent article? What magazine was it in?

Enza: Boston Voyager?

Paul: Boston Voyager, and it was sort of an interview with you. And one of the things that was interesting is it had a picture of you and your babies, as you call them. So what, what’s the deal with that? You seem to really like these babies.

Enza: I do love my babies. I’m invited to baby dedications, baby baptisms, first birthdays. I try and have a thank-you party for my clients at the end of the year. Moms and I get together for coffee afterwards. We chat about, you know, nursing, or breastfeeding or pediatrician visits. And we do really form a great relationship.

Paul: So, that just seems… I mean, maybe all doulas do that. Do they?

Enza: I don’t think so.

Paul: So do you have… I mean, you don’t think so, but you must have anecdotal information or people saying that. Is it just a job to some?

Enza: I have been told that I get too personal with my clients from other doulas.

Paul: Oh, from other doulas. But not from the moms.

Enza: Not from the moms.

Paul: So the moms aren’t saying, “Whoa. Stop.” I mean, how can you be, really, any more personal? You know, so it’s like other doulas are saying… What’s the motivation there? Are they talking about a disconnectedness?

Enza: This is a business. They say this is a business. It should be separated from your personal life. You are there to be with them during birth, and it shouldn’t carry on afterwards.

Paul: And what’s their reason for that?

Enza: It’s a business. Why would you mix business with pleasure?

Paul: Why wouldn’t you, if you could?

Enza: That’s my question exactly.

Paul: Okay. Alright. Well, I mean, if you can find a business you love, I was just reading a quote, you know, “Work is…” Oh, I’m never going to remember it. But basically the idea that if you can find something you love, it’s not work anymore. So, I’m trying to think of if we were to redefine your view of the world, how you would deal with that because even if you were just doing it from a customer service point of view to call them up and say, “Hey, how you doing?” I mean, we had our washer fixed two weeks ago and Sears called and says, “How’s it going? Are you happy with our service?” Well, is that too personal? You know, they’re not. But they’re talking about our washer. I mean, it’s not a personal issue. But it sounds like the person, the critical nature of the comment they made was not about the personal level of information but just the involvement, the engagement level.

And so that’s very interesting. So that seems to be an assumed position. Has this been a lot of doulas? I mean, what’s the downside? I don’t see. Unless you don’t like people. I mean, like me. I could go to a party and bring a magazine. So, not that I don’t like people. It’s just not natural for me.

Enza: I guess if another doula doesn’t want her personal life to be on display. Because you’re going to have… If you go to a coffee together, you’re going to have to… There’s going to be back and forth discussion. You’re going to have to bring up your family. You’re going to have to talk about the things you’re doing this summer. Does that make sense?

Paul: Well, it’s not for a private person who says, “Oh, you can’t know anything about me.”

Enza: Right.

Paul: So it’s like, your doctor. You probably have… Whoever your doctor is, you probably don’t know what they’re doing for vacation this year.
Enza: I do.

Paul: That’s one of your gifts, extracting that. You’re a military intelligence person.

Enza: That’s right.

Paul: Yes.

Enza: My husband calls me sergeant major.

Paul: Yes, ma’am. So, that’s very interesting. So do you think of the doulas you know, what percentage are the, “I’m in this for the relationship, for the long haul, for treating them as a person and as a family,” or, “I’m in this for the business”?

Enza: Wow. That’s hard. I’d probably say 80% of them are in for the business.

Paul: Really. Now, I mean, that’s not altogether bad. But it doesn’t sound like the Cadillac of it.

Enza: If you’re in it to make money, and there’s money to be made, especially if you work in the Boston area, doulas can make as much as 1200 to $1500 per birth, which is pretty good. My training was in Iowa. Doulas in Nebraska/Iowa area make 350 to 400. So, you know, 1200 to 1500 is great. So if you really are focused on making money, and that is your focus, then it is your business. For me, it’s not my business. I don’t do this to get rich. It’s my ministry. I feel like women who want a doula deserve a doula. If I joke that if I was living in the 1800s and I was a doula, I would be paid in chickens and canned beans, beef jerky that was dried from the venison, you know. But that’s how I work. The money is great. When I get paid, it’s great. But if you can’t afford me, then I’m still willing to be able to sit with you and talk to you and help you out.

Committed to Clients – Being on Call 24/7

Paul: Oh, interesting. Wow. So it does sound like it’s more of an experience almost for what you’re doing. Because I know that just having talked with you, you get interrupted to… You said here, before we started recording, “I’m waiting for a birth.”

Enza: I am.

Paul: So, you know that phone goes off, and you’re gone. And you don’t know if it’s going to be an hour or 72 hours. And no matter what you were doing, you know, you had concert tickets, well, it’s too bad.

Enza: I’ve missed a lot over the last 10 years.

Paul: That’s a big cost. What do you think of that? Does seeing the babies counter that?

Enza: Yeah. There’s a loyalty there. There’s a commitment. I’m committed to be there, no matter what. And, I mean, I do have backups. But I like to see it from the start to finish. That does give me joy, you know, to be able to say, “I was there. Here’s this beautiful baby. We worked together as a team.”

Paul: Yeah. It does sound very rewarding. I mean, to shepherd these people through this experience.

First Time Moms and Second Time Moms

Paul: Is there a contrast between first-time moms and second, third, fourth, fifth, seventh-time moms?

Enza: I love my first-time moms because they know nothing. And — this sounds terrible, but — they do what I tell them. And they’re happy. Second-time moms, they know what’s going to happen. They know what it’s going to feel like, and they can be really cranky.

Paul: I see. So is that second-time moms that are second-time for you?

Enza: Yes.

Paul: Okay. So it’s just a second time, no matter where you’re form.

Enza: Yes. Yes.

Paul: Okay. Interesting. I can’t imagine it. You know, I get a paper cut and I’m all messed up.

A Happy Story and a Sad Story

I asked you the question earlier about anecdotal stories or interesting things that have happened. Has anything come to mind?

Enza: You want happy stories or do you want sad stories?

Paul: Well, I, I don’t know. I mean, maybe one of each.

Enza: So, one of my stories, was a mom who was delivering at the birth center, and everything was going really well. But, after a very long labor, she decided she really wanted an epidural. So we transferred her over to the hospital, and she got her epidural and everything was going wonderfully. At some point, we saw that there was meconium in the amniotic fluid, which just means that the baby pooped. Which also means we need to careful when the baby is born. Sometimes the baby can inhale the meconium, and we don’t want that to happen.

But in the midst of pushing, my client didn’t hear that, although there was meconium, the baby was fine. So when the baby was born, they had to take the baby directly over to the warmer instead of putting baby on mom’s chest.

Paul: Was this her first child?

Enza: This was her first child. And the baby was doing great, but she didn’t hear any of that. And I happened to look over at her, and her mouth is drooping, and she’s got tears coming down, but she couldn’t talk. And I thought she was having a stroke. And I looked at the midwife who looked at the OB, and the OB said, “Oh, she’s in shock.” And I just kept looking at her and saying, “What can I do? What’s wrong?” You know, “Talk to me.” And she wouldln’t talk to me.

And, it was devastating. I didn’t know what was going on.

Paul: I can imagine. Yeah.

Enza: And then this was just a matter of, like, three or four minutes. They were suctioning the baby. The baby was great. They took the baby back over to mom. They laid baby on mom’s chest, and all of a sudden, she just let out this heart-wrenching wail. And she’s sobbing, and she looks down at her baby, and she says, “My baby, my baby, my baby.” And I found out later that she thought the baby had died. She, you know, she was so intense in that moment that she didn’t hear that he was okay. And so that was pretty intense.

So I’m going to use the same client, because then she hired me for baby number two. And the second story is wonderful. I got to her house, and she was contracting every five minutes, and, at every five minutes, she would, you know, grunt a little bit and groan. And then in between that, she would go, “Oh-hoo-hoo-hoo.”

Paul: This is too much information. This is a PG show.

Enza: And I would say, “What is that? Is that a contraction?”

And she would say, “No, the baby’s moving.”

So we continue for a while, and then I realize that when her groans and moans got a little bit more intense, that those were indeed contractions that she was feeling. So instead of being every five minutes, they were every two minutes. So we were in Danvers. We headed to hospital in Beverly. Her husband takes the wrong exit. At this point, I’m in the back seat with her, and I’m screaming, “Don’t push!”

And she’s screaming, “I have to!”

So we make it to the birth center. The midwives had to literally help us carry her out of the car. We threw her in the tub, and within a few seconds, she had pushed out this beautiful baby girl. So those are some of my great stories.

Writing a Book of Doula Stories

Paul: That’s fun. Now I don’t know if this is preempting it, but you’re writing a book.

Enza: I am.

Paul: And is it a telephone book? Or what’s it about?

Enza: I guess you could call it my memoirs.

Paul: Your memoirs. Okay. Usually you have a ghostwriter write those for you, but yes.

Enza: I am writing doula stories.

Paul: Who wants to read that book?

Enza: I hope that everyone will want to read these books.

Paul: Okay. So you’re making it for everybody.

Enza: Moms, dads, other doulas, midwives. Yes.

Paul: And now most people would love to write a book. And if you listen to writes, you have to write one page at a time. And now you’ve sort of announced this — what? — A couple of months ago, wasn’t it?

Enza: Oh, a month ago.

Paul: A month ago.

Enza: Four weeks now.

Paul: So have you gotten any pages written?

Enza: 41.

Paul: 41. Well, see that’s really good. That’s really encouraging.

Enza: I have no idea what I’m doing.

Paul: Are the letters in the right order?

Enza: They are.

Paul: Okay. So that’s really the main thing here, that matters. So what is your hope to do with that? You wanted to… is it mostly cathartic, or is it that you really think that people will benefit from it, or both? Or you want to get to sell the movie rights, you know?

Enza: I would love Julia Roberts to play me. I’s cathartic. I would hope that parents that read it are encouraged. I hope that other doulas that read it can learn from the ways I encourage or just to learn from my mistakes and how not to repeat those mistakes. That’s just a little bit of everything.

Paul: Interesting. Well, we’ll look forward to that. Maybe we can have a discussion about it when it’s out and see how that goes.

The Business of Doula-ing

Paul: Now you had talked a little bit about the business of doula-ing. Is that a word?

Enza: I think we’ve made it a word.

Paul: We’ve made it a word? Doula-ing.

Enza: Doula-ing.

Paul: Dueling. Dueling doulas. Uh, no. Never mind. I could go there. So how busy does this keep you? Because I know you’re at the beck and call of when the baby’s coming. So that’s interruptive. But what about all the other time? How is that?

Enza: So I try and have between three to four clients per month. There are doulas that have a little bit more. There are some that have a little bit less. I don’t go very crazy with three to four. So it’s scheduling the prenatal meetings. So that means I have— what? — four, eight, twelve, twelve meetings.

Paul: So it sounds like if you have… Are you saying three births a month?

Enza: Three to four births per month.

Paul: Wow. Because if they were ideal, they’d be every Wednesday, let’s say. That’s keeping you pretty busy because you’re not going in… I mean, at best case, it’s probably six hours.

Enza: Average is 12.

Paul: Average is 12. Okay. That’s a lot of time. So every Wednesday you are gone, basically. And you gotta recover from that. And then you also have to do the stuff around that with your clients.

Enza: Correct. Plus your post-partum meetings. I stay pretty busy.

Paul: Yeah. It sounds like it.

Enza: And in the fall, I usually have about five births per month.

Paul: So you’re really hopping. I mean, you’re really moving along. Have you ever thought about sort of getting other doulas to work with you? Or how does that work? Is that possible?

Enza: Yes. There’s a lot of doulas that work together. I’ve thought about it. I’m probably in a position now where I could afford to hire another doula. But it just goes back, again, to wanting to be there from the beginning to the end and just seeing it through.

Paul: I would imagine a lot of the value… Small businesses take on the personality of their owner in a lot of ways. I mean, that might be defined as successful ones, if they have a good personality. So that would be an important aspect, I think, for you to do, is to multiply yourself, is trying to figure out how do I find somebody that has the same values and philosophy. And that’s a difficult order, you know. I think you have a great philosophy. But if you’re a curmudgeon, you’ve gotta go out and hire a curmudgeon, you know. Or they’re going to be at loggerheads with you.

Dissolving Barriers – Being a Christian Doula

Enza: And I’m a Christian. So if I have clients who desire Christians to be in the birth room, it’s even harder to find another doula who is a Christian and not into the New Age or things like that. So that makes it even more difficult.

Paul: Has that presented problems for you, being in Christian in these circumstances?

Enza: Never.

Paul: Wow. Okay.

Enza: I was interviewed by a Wiccan several years ago who told me to absolutely not pray or mention the word “God” in the delivery room, and I said, “I will be very professional. I am here to support you.” And halfway through, she grabbed my hands and asked me to pray for her.

Paul: So she hired you.

Enza: So she did hire me.

Paul: So she hired you. That’s a big deal.

Enza: I’ve been hired by quite a few.

Paul: So that’s sort of like somebody in Israel hiring somebody from, you know, next door to, you know. It’s just that it doesn’t seem like it’d be natural.

Enza: Right.

Paul: I guess that says a lot about the quality of your work and your personality and the effectiveness there. So that something that might be a barrier really dissolves away. That’s cool.

So we’ve been talking with Enza Lilley of A Mommy’s Friend doula…What’s the actual title? A Mommy’s Friend?

Enza: Mommy’s Friend Doula Service.

Paul: Doula service. Okay. And, she’s headquartered, or really, works geographically out of the North Shore, Massachusetts into Boston. And she helps moms bring new people into the world.

Enza: Thank you for having me.

Paul: Absolutely. It’s been a pleasure!

Also published on Medium.

A Mommy’s Friend – Enza Lilley

September 5, 2017 / / 0 Comments

Today on the Edge of Innovation, we are talking with Enza Lilley, a doula from “A Mommy’s Friend Doula Service” about her experiences as a doula and small business owner on the North Shore of Boston.

 

Show Notes

Enza Lilley’s Website: www.amommysfriend.com

Find Enza Lilley on Facebook

Enza Lilley in the Boston Voyage Online Magazine

Sections

What is a Doula?
Culture Shift – Hospitals to Doulas
The Value of a Doula – What a Doula Does
Enza’s Doula Story
Enza’s First Doula Births
The Business Side of Being a Doula
How a Great Website Helps!

A Mommy’s Friend – Enza Lilley

 

Paul: Well, hi. I’m here today with Enza Lilley. Say hello, Enza.

Enza: Hello. Thank you for having me.

What is a Doula?

 

Paul: You should have said, “Hello, Enza.” But yeah. We’re talking today with Enza Lilley. Now you’re something that I’ve seen… The first time I saw this word was on a bumper sticker that said the word “doula.” I had no idea what this meant. And it was like this mythical thing. I have no idea what it is. So what’s a doula?

Enza: I had no idea what it meant either, just so you know. A doula is, in the Greek it means, woman slave or woman caregiver. So we give, basically, physical, emotional, education, and spiritual support to a mom in labor — usually a little bit before labor, during labor, and within those couple of hours after labor.

Paul: Okay, but, I mean… I haven’t been a mom, at least not yet. We’ll see if that’s possible? I don’t know. We’ll talk about that later. But, millions of woman give birth all the time, and they don’t have doulas because I lived a long time, and never heard the word. So what’s the big deal? Why, is it special? Is this just an indulgence?

Enza: No. So we make the process a lot easier. We help moms cope with the pain. We help them cope with the emotional feelings that they’re feeling. We educate them so they know what to expect, how to talk to an OB, how to talk to a midwife. And I think the most important thing is that we offer continuity of care. Nurses and midwives are wonderful, but they come and go. They have shifts. I don’t have a shift.

Paul: Okay, so let’s stop. Let’s imagine somebody doesn’t know anything about this because we have a fairly eclectic audience from single guys to engineers, to woman who are professionals to moms, you know — all sorts of different people. So they’re all going to come at a different level. So let’s try and define some of the terms. So, a woman gets pregnant. She goes to her doctor. You’re pregnant, and they then tell them something. Probably this is how you have to take care of yourself. This is all the different things. This is what to expect maybe, when you’re expecting. That’s a book.

Enza: That’s a book.

Paul: Not that we’re plugging the book, but it’s a good title. And so at some point, somebody must introduce this concept of a doula or, well, a midwife. Or I’m not going to go and have my baby in a hospital. And so there’s all these things swirling around, and I can’t imagine having to make all of these decisions with such a life-changing event. And so why does somebody go out and choose a midwife or a birthing center or a hospital? So what are some of the reasons and the thoughts sort of going on and swirling around in couple’s heads as they’re thinking about how to get this human here?

Enza: Okay. So some of the questions that they deal with are…Like how crunchy are they? And by crunchy, I mean, how natural are they. Are they seeking no medical interventions at all?

Paul: So can you have a baby with no medical interventions?

Enza: Totally. And that’s usually where I play a really big role because you’re not giving an epidural which stops the pain from your waist down. You’re not getting narcotics.

Paul: So, okay. So “crunchy” is a good word. So I’m not interested in natural things. So I don’t want to buy canned fruit. I want to buy fresh fruit.

Enza: Correct.

Paul: Okay. And I want crunchy granola as opposed to processed food, processed cereal. So that’s a predisposition, I guess, with a person generally. You know, somebody that says, “Gee, I’m not going to buy processed food. I don’t go to McDonald’s. I’m going to eat real food that came from a farm or even from a farm nearby. So there’s sort of a spectrum.

Culture Shift – Hospitals to Doulas

 

Paul: So you have a woman who’s pregnant. I mean, that was a shift it seems like because everybody I know — almost everybody 40 years or older — was born in a hospital. What hospital were you born in? Oh you were born in this hospital. So that change occurred. When did that change occur? Do you know? Or how did you perceive that?

Enza: Okay. Let me take you back, way back when. You know, our grandmothers, great-grandmothers. They had babies at home. It was all about home birth. No one ever thought about going to the big city hospital. So I’m not quite sure of the year, but somewhere in maybe early 1930s, 1940s, everyone decided the safest place to be was in a hospital. So the trend towards home birth and birth centers went away because now you had these OBs who had medical training. And now, as the years have gone by, we’re going back.

Paul: Well what was the reason why the hospital sounded good? Because if there were complications…

Enza: If there were complications, they’d have—

Paul: They’d have the equipment and the people.

Enza: Equipment, the surgeons. Correct.

Paul: Okay. So that was the reason. That seemed like a valid reason, at least sitting here with… looking at it back 70 or 80 years ago. Isn’t that still the case now? Or can we just see better? You know, because I imagine you can tell, when working with a client, whether they’re going to be complicated or not.

Enza: Correct. We have the technology now. We have ultrasounds. We have blood tests. We have midwives who are now trained professionally whereas in the good old days, you had grandma.
Difference Between Midwife and Doula

Paul: Okay. Well, what’s a midwife though?

Enza: So a midwife is usually a certified nurse who has trained in midwifery care. So they can do everything an OB can do. They deliver the baby. You know, they’re hands on.

Paul: But they’re not a doctor.

Enza: But they’re not a doctor. They’re not a medical doctor. So they don’t perform C-sections.

Paul: Alright. So a midwife is really just a doctor. It’s like a physician’s assistant. If you go to your doctor, and they’re too busy, you can meet with a nurse practitioner, I guess.

Enza: They’re a little bit more than that. They do the whole care through the whole…from the beginning to the end and…

Paul: Okay. So you go. So let’s just zoom forward to time around delivery. And I imagine this is where… Well, I don’t know. It will be interesting how your value breaks down because you’re there. And your job is to be there for the mom to support the mom, and I would imagine even the family — the dad, etc. — to offer a continuity as opposed to a nurse that just stops in every hour and goes to lunch and then goes home. Do you stay with the mom the whole time?

Enza: I do.

Paul: Oh, come on. I mean, you must leave and go shower and change.

Enza: I do not.

Paul: Wow. So you’re there with her and supporting her.

Enza: I am there whether she’s in labor for two hours or two days. My longest birth has been 73 hours.

Paul: 73 hours. Wow. Gosh. How many days in that? 24…

Enza: A little over three days.

Paul: Three days. Wow. Oh, my gosh. Just let’s take a little brief eddy here on this stream. Was she…? How crunchy was she?

Enza: Very crunchy. This was a home birth.

Paul: Okay. So she was committed.

Enza: She was committed.

Paul: Was there waxing and waning during that, at the 50th hour? At what point…? What was the emotional rollercoaster that she went through? It’s like, “Well, maybe I’ve bit off more than I could chew. Get this baby out of me.”

Enza: Actually, she was amazing. She really stuck to her guns. She had a birth plan. She knew how to execute that birth plan. She was very patient. We took it hour by hour. The midwife was there for most of it, and we just walked her through the pain. We walked her through her emotions. It was beautiful.

The Value of a Doula – What a Doula Does

 

Paul: Wow. It seems as we’re sort of peeling this onion back, it seems obvious, that you’d want to have somebody there that’s chief concern is the mom. I mean, if you care about the mom. I mean, so the institutionalized medicine world thinks that we can just, they stop by the rooms, and they’ve done their whole duty. They look at the chart, read it. “Okay. Good. You’re good. Fine.” But there’s a huge amount of emotional support there. Would you say…?

So 72 hours is a lot of time, but there’s also value you bring before and after the birth. What, what happens before?

Enza: So I usually meet with my client at least twice. The first time, it’s just a bunch of question and answer session. I ask tons of questions. I get to know them both. And husband plays a great role in this as well. I teach them pressure points and the way to massage their wives. And so I always include them. So I get to know them. I feel like the closer that we are, the better relationship we’re going to have in the birth room. So it’s get to know them. Then I meet with them another time. We discuss different birth positions and pushing and just talk about what happens the moment they get to the hospital or the birth center or whatever they want to birth. And take it from a the beginning to the end. And then they call me when they’re ready. And I either meet them at the hospital or meet them in their home, depending whether they’re ready to go to the hospital. And then afterwards, I meet with them two more times.

Paul: Okay. So it sounds like in the beginning, you’re demystifying things. So especially for a first time, mom, there’s gotta be a lot of uncertainty and who knows what. I mean we’ve all seen, TV, where we’re disconnected from it. So you give them that guidance as a couple, and you work through that with them, and I guess, give them some reassurance that I’m going to be there because one thing I could say, “Well, you could just cut out those and just arrive at the hospital or arrive at the birthing center, and we’ll just do it now.” But if you’ve talked to them about all of the different things, it’s going to be a lot to take in, and that’s not the first thing on their mind.

Enza: Correct.

Enza’s Doula Story

 

Paul: So, what in the world made you do this? I mean, is it a family tradition?
Enza: It is not. So right about the time I hit 39 and was about to hit 40, a couple months after that my youngest has started kindergarten, and I just knew there had to be more than just scrubbing the pee off the back of the toilet every day. I was a medical assistant before I had children, and I worked in the OBGYN field. And I loved it.

Paul: What did a medical assistant do?

Enza: We did a lot more clinical things, like draw blood, take blood pressure, give injections. I know I didn’t want to go back to that. So I thought I would do some midwifery, look into some midwifery classes, perhaps become a midwife. When I looked into it, I realized that I needed nursing school. At almost 40 years old, I was way too tired to go back to college.

Paul: How long would it have taken to go back?

Enza: Four years.

Paul: Four more years. Wow. Okay.

Enza: Plus your midwifery training. So probably an, at least, another five years. So, a midwifery friend of mine knew that I was struggling to do something back into that maternity care, and she knew how much I loved the maternity world and had a love to take care of women and children. And so she pointed me to the doula direction. And like I said before, I had never heard of the word doula. I had no idea what it meant. So I just did the research, found a certifying organization, and voila.

Paul: Wow. And how many kids have you helped bring into the world?

Enza: I am at 202.

Paul: Wow. 202 moms. Well actually, probably… I don’t know. Have you done multiple births.

Enza: I have not. I have not done multiple births. Or, you mean twins?

Paul: No. I mean like a mom who has had three kids.

Enza: Oh, no. I have done that. Yes.

Paul: Okay. So it’s little less than 200 moms.

Enza: Exactly. Yes.

Paul: And now, when you were thinking about doing this… From now, from our point of view now, if you could go back and wave a magic wand and become a midwife, without the four years plus the internship and all the different practicals, you could have just snapped your fingers, would you go back and do that, or would you still be a doula?

Enza: I would still be a doula.

Paul: Wow. So that sounds like a really neat… So she introduced you to this idea, and you didn’t know what it was. What did you do? I mean, what did you say? What did she tell you?

Enza: She just told me that she thought I would be a great doula, and I should look into—

Paul: And you took offense at that? What’s a doula? You know, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Enza: Well, I didn’t know anything about it, so I had to do the research and found out. When I saw that, I thought, yeah, that’s me. I love the relationships that I form with my clients. And I think as a midwife, as wonderful as they are — because I work with amazing midwives — they just don’t get to form that relationship.

Paul: Sure because they’ve got to get to the next patient.

Enza: And I form a relationship with them. There’s a bond there, and I enjoy that. I enjoy getting to know my clients.

Paul: So, I looked at your website, and it does a good job of sort of allowing somebody to connect with you and get an idea of who you are and your personality. I would imagine that’s a big part, is how you click with the mom and the dad. But, you’re going to be there to support them. So if your personalities don’t mesh, it’s not a good fit.

Enza: Correct.

Paul: So you’ve had 200 births. The people that come to you, what’s the percentage of them that say, “Yes, Enza’s the woman I want to have to do this”? Is it 100%? Everybody you interview? No. I imagine there’s some non-fit.

Enza: It’s probably 98%.

Paul: Really. Wow. That says a lot. So it either says you’ve got a really good website or you really… Well, it says you’ve got a decent website. You’re able to communicate well. And then do you ever get any returns? Do people come back and say, “No, I want my money back because…” Or put the baby back in because she didn’t help me or…?

Enza: No. Never. I have had, in 10 years, I had one lady who did not pay the remainder of my fee.

Paul: Really?

Enza: Yes, she ended up with a C-section, and I think she was not happy that…

Paul: Oh, and that’s your fault.

Enza: And that’s my fault.

Paul: Well, if you’ve got that kind of power over other people. So, tell me some of the anecdotes. You know, the interesting things that have happened that you wouldn’t have expected sort of when you first got into this.

Enza: Wow. That’s really hard. You put me on the spot here.

Paul: That’s okay.

Enza: So many interesting things.

 

Enza’s First Doula Births

 

Paul: Well, your first one. Did you do that alone? Did you do that with somebody else? Or how did that happen?

Enza: I did it alone. Meaning just I was the only doula there.

Paul: Yeah. You did it alone. No mom, nothing. You know, it worked really well.

Enza: I want to make sure people know I’m doing this with an OB and not without supervision. Actually my first three, which were what’s called my certifying births — you have to be evaluated by OBs and midwives and nurses and the parents so that you can get your certification — were absolutely horrendous.

Paul: Really? What do you mean horrendous? The people were hard to deal with or just it didn’t go well?

Enza: It just didn’t go well. I had heartrates decelerating and moms’ blood pressures dropping, and dad’s passing out and…

Paul: Oh, so they were technically hard.

Enza: Yes.

Paul: As, as hard as they could be?

Enza: Oh, yes. We had an emergency C-section in one. Baby’s heartrate had decelerated so low that it was like [claps] off we went.

Paul: So how are the kids now? Are they…?

Enza: They’re great. They’re great.

Paul: So we can talk about this and not feel bad. So you went into this. And are you thinking, “What in the world have I gotten myself into?”

Enza: I was ready to quit.

Paul: On one or two or three or on all of them?

Enza: On three. On three. I was done.

Paul: You said I’m going to, I’m going to power though this, but three I’m done.

Enza: I’m done.

Paul: So what changed your mind?

Enza: My husband. He’s really good about saying, you know, “This is something you’ve started, and you’re good at what you’re doing, and I want you to continue doing it.”

And I reluctantly said, “Okay. I’ll give it one more shot.”

And actually, birth number four was fantastic. It was everything that I expected it to be.

Paul: So how were your reviews after one, two, and three, and then after four? What were the feedback from the moms and the parents?

Enza: Actually the feedback was great. They know that it wasn’t something that I had control over.

Paul: Sure.

Enza: You know. I mean, there was little things. I can’t remember that far back, but, you know, just little things that I could improve on. You know, maybe a technique or maybe not to be so timid.

Paul: Okay. Good points.

Enza: Nowadays I’m a little bit more…

Paul: Yeah. You know what’s best.

Enza: Exactly.

Paul: You’ve been there. You’ve been there.

The Business Side of Being a Doula

 

Paul: So you’ve moved around a lot because I know you’ve shared that your husband was in the military, so the military has this habit of moving people all around the country. So you’ve actually started this business how many times?

Enza: Wow. One, two, three, four times.

Paul: Four times. And you were successful on all of them. So that’s a pretty big deal. I mean, you know, 99% of small businesses fail, I think. Or some ridiculous number. Now you’re not in Massachusetts on the North Shore and you have started… When did you start offering your services in Massachusetts?

Enza: November of 2011.

Paul: Okay. And how has that gone?

Enza: Well, the first six months were really rough. I had no bites at all. But that’s pretty typical of all my moves. And then after that, I started with a few in the Concord area, actually of Mass. Then it kind of trickled a little bit into Boston, and then finally into the North Shore.

Paul: Interesting. Well, that’s interesting. So what’s the difference between now and then?

Enza: I think now I have a better relationship with the midwives and the OBs, especially at the local hospital.

Paul: So community. Really building up that community.

How a Great Website Helps!

 

Enza: Yes. And, actually, I have a great website. From the moment my website was redesigned last year, and within a year my business really has doubled, and I really do think it’s because of the website with fresh and new content.

Paul: Right. Well, we do a lot of websites. We actually helped build Enza’s website. But you know, a website, in your position, in your career, your product that you’re offering is really, you know… If you’re buying a car, you see them on the road, and you see say, “Oh, that’s a cool car. I’d like to go see that.” You might go to a dealer then to test-drive it. You might want to know some things about it. So you go to the website for more details. But your website has a specific challenge of really introducing you because, you know, is she nice? Is she gruff? Is she this? Is she that? You know. And, and trying to evoke a personality through a website is really hard. Your old website did a good job of that. I do think the new one does a better job of that, and you’ve had feedback from your clients that that’s been very effective.

Enza: I have had, I think, almost every single one of my clients has said to me, “I knew you from the moment I met you on your website.” They said, “Your website just brings out your personality.”

Paul: Well, you have a big personality, a delightful personality. So it’s a lot easier to show that though when it’s truly there, than trying to take somebody that’s a curmudgeon. Who would it be? Who would be a good example without… I’m thinking of the Grinch maybe. If you put that face on there, you know, it’s not going to come across warm and fuzzy. And so I think just your whole personality, just your whole demeanor comes through on the website. And then you have a lot of good testimonials and comments from other people which are really helpful. And, you know, as we advise people who are building websites, you really want to think about that. No matter what business you’re in… I mean, this is an incredibly personal business. It’s a very personal decision to have somebody there while you’re giving birth and after that.

Paul: So we’ve been talking with Enza Lilley of A Mommy’s Friend doula…What’s the actual title? A Mommy’s Friend, period?

Enza: Mommy’s Friend Doula Service.

Paul: Doula service. Okay. And, she’s headquartered, or really, works geographically out of the North Shore, Massachusetts into Boston. And she helps moms bring new people into the world.

Enza: Thank you for having me.

Paul: Absolutely. It’s been a pleasure!

 

Also published on Medium.

Go Pound Sand. Moving Sand Around the World with Taylor Robinson of PLG

August 8, 2017 / / 0 Comments

Today on the Edge of Innovation, we are talking with Taylor Robinson of PLG Consulting about the business of logistics and moving sand around the world.

 

Introduction

Go Pound Sand. Moving Sand Around the World with Taylor Robinson of PLG

 

Paul: Hello. My name is Paul Parisi, and I’m here with Taylor Robinson, the president of PLG Consulting. Hi, Taylor.

Taylor: Good afternoon, Paul.

Paul: So what else do you cover in logistics? I mean, is it just… I don’t want to say “just” what you do, or is that one segment of what you do at PLG or are there other things?

Taylor: Yeah. That would be one-third of what we do. One-third is we help people improve their logistics. We bring experts that have been in those industries for 30 to 40 years come in and quickly solve their problems.

Paul: What kind of problems do they have?

Taylor: Cost, efficiency, waste, poor pricing on their services that they buy. So we’re helping them get better. And you call them…those are shippers. They’re the ones that are using…they’re paying for the freight. They’re paying for the logistics and the handling. They need to lower that cost to be competitive.

Paul: And how far can you go? I mean, do they have to revisit this? Or is it something that they do it once and I do this in 2017, and I don’t have to do it for another 20 years, or is it a constantly changing…

Taylor: It depends on the industry. Some of the industries don’t change much. And we will occasionally find a client that, we look over them at a very deep level, and there’s not a lot we can help.

Paul: Because they’ve done a good job.

Taylor: They’ve got the great team. They know how to do the right processes. They’ve got good technology. So therefore, they’re best in class. But that’s pretty rare because people haven’t kept up. Logistics is kind of sometimes a lower-tier job or, in the organization, it’s not as prestigious. So therefore, it gets kind of put in the corner, so we can usually go in and help folks, with our experience. And it also helps that we see multiple people in an industry, and we can take those learnings and apply them and really look at what’s best in class versus this is the way we’ve always done it.

Paul: Right. Yeah. So rather than knowing just one way to do it, you’ve seen what works and what doesn’t work across industries. So that’s really cool. So you don’t have to make mistakes on me.

So now, alright. I’m somebody. I’m working in a big company that does this plastic stuff. I make the bags that wrap bread, let’s say. Who am I? Am I a vice president, a CEO? And, what do I do? Because I know that’s only one tiny part of their job. Or is it that that’s all they do is worry about the logistics?

Taylor: Mostly we start out with the people that have logistics folks on their team. Usually it’s a C-level person that we find a way in. Sometimes we’re brought in from the working team. They just can’t find a solution, and they get permission to go find us. But normally, they don’t want us in there if they’re not a good player, they don’t want us to come in.

Paul: Right. Well, okay. So there, there’s a crisis that occurs. What manifests that crisis? Is it that we just can’t compete on price or I’m hearing rumors? So I’m the CEO, let’s say. How is that crisis going to get to my desk? Is it that my competitors are beating me all the time? Or is it that, gee, I talked to Joe at that other company, and they’re getting it there for half the price? How does it actually occur? What manifests the inflection point that makes me say, “We’ve got to do something about this?”

Taylor: Usually something’s changed. Leadership has changed. The industry is changing, and they can’t keep up. Tthey’re no longer competitive.

Paul: Dig into that a little bit — the “I can’t keep up.” What does that mean?

Taylor: That means their competitor is getting the products there cheaper, faster. They’re better.

Paul: So I’m, I’m losing out.

Taylor: On sales.

Paul: The person who is buying it is going to buy from Joe because he got it there for $10 cheaper than me. Or maybe a day earlier than me.

Taylor: Exactly.

Paul: Interesting. So I’m talking about not just one bag a flour, I’m talking about a train-load of flour that’s been processed and turned into bread or something.

Taylor: Or there’s a crisis, as you said. The supply chain breaks, and they’ve made a mistake, and they’re totally losing business, you know.

Paul: So they didn’t plan well. They didn’t predict that they need a million loaves of bread on this day?

Taylor: Yeah. So it could be a planning issue. It could be a whole host of things that causes something to break, and there’s an emergency.

Paul: Well let’s go to that. So let’s say there was a problem with the wheat crop, just to use something that is already identifiable by people. Wheat turns into bread. So would logistics cover the fact… Would you have thought about it? Do you have contingency plans for if the wheat crop is bad? Do you have leading indicators saying, “Hey, you know, it doesn’t look like we’re going to have a lot of wheat in the fall.” Or do you just react?

Taylor: Well, either way. You can. And usually good logistics folks are good business people, and they’re looking for those leading indicators, and they’re staying up with the market. They’re listening to their sales team, and they’re trying to gather data so that they can be proactive and ready to go so that that crisis doesn’t happen.

So it’s a combination of our talents are as logistics professionals but also with a business mindset. And therefore, we can not only help the shippers, we can also help the transportation providers that are on the other side of the table.

Paul: Okay. So I’m a trucker. I own a fleet of trucks or trains. You can help me how?

Taylor: Because we understand that market, and we might be ahead of them in saying, “You know, the trend is that you have a smaller truck that can go faster,” which is not true. But anyway, we help them with those market trends because we’ve got our eyes on the market. We’ve got our eyes on the logistics methods and processes, and sometime, when you’re doing something the same all the time, you’re missing those opportunities. You’re not looking enough ahead. You don’t know the industry well enough that you’re serving.

So again, we bring, as you think about it, the shipper, the transportation provider or logistics provider, they’re just on opposite sides of the table. So if we can help one, we can help the other. A lot more strategy work for the transportation provider, for example. We’re not going to tell them how to run their business, but we might give them a direction that they ought to be heading towards this market or talking to this type of company. Or what’s the solution you’re going to bring to them?

Paul: So let me ask this. So, sand, 20 years ago, probably wasn’t in big demand like it is now. So did somebody see that coming and say, “Oh my gosh. We’ve got to get a lot of trucks or trains ready for sand”? Because, I mean, that sounds like… Let’s assume we were at a steady state so that the trains were running with plastic and whatever they were filled with. And all of a sudden, we need sand for a completely new technology effectively. It’s certainly at the consumption levels. Well, the trains are all full. In other words, they only have so many train, and they’re delivering plastic already. And they’re delivering whatever they deliver. So is that something that you guys would have helped predict? And was that something that you helped, or how did the whole logistics community react to that huge need, sort of that inrush current? Like, oh my gosh, there’s just a huge need all of a sudden.

Taylor: Yeah. It was a really interesting thing to be a part of because if you think about how much sand has moved on rail before fracking, it was really boring and steady. You know, it was moving sand to a casting shop, or it was moving sand to make fiberglass, which are decent volumes of sand, but literally, over the past, I’d say, seven, eight years, the volume of sand moved by rail has gone up, eight to ten times.

Paul: But where did they get the trains?

Taylor: It’s that type of product, you have a locomotive. And whoever is going to move the sand, they have to buy the car, or lease the car. So there were not enough of the small…what they’re called, small covered hoppers. You have to have a small car because it’s so heavy, there’s a limit. So the size of one of these small-covered hoppers was perfect for sand. It used to be used for cement too. So those cars went from, again, building one thousand or two a year to building tens of thousands a year.

Paul: Is that really? That’s the magnitude?

Taylor: Yeah, yeah.

Paul: They’re producing them now? And so they’re rushing to build these cars.

Taylor: Yeah. And over the last seven or eight years, the frac sand world has had three ups and downs. And every time, the market isn’t mature enough. All the different aspects of that market are so immature that there’s vast over-building and then shortages. Because it moves so quickly compared to conventional, vertical drilling that was very sleepy. The hydraulic fracturing came upon us very quickly. And as people figured it out, they needed all these materials—

Paul: And they needed it now.

Taylor: And they need it now, and they never had to move anything by rail.

Paul: So they don’t know how to order it or move it or get it there. So what did they do? I mean, I’m sure they’re talking about millions of dollars’ worth of investments to do these new wells. So what did they do? How did they order it? And then they call the train company and they say, “Well, we don’t have any cars.”

Taylor: Yeah. Well, that whole supply chain had to get set up because the sand was mined throughout the country for these other purposes, but nearly all the best quality sand was in Wisconsin and Illinois and Minnesota due to the geology. It was needed in Ohio, Texas, North Dakota.

Paul: And were there good trains between those places?

Taylor: Not really. Not really.

Paul: So did they build new train tracks?

Taylor: Yeah, especially to North Dakota. The railroads built billions of dollars of investment to get more capacity to move sand in and crude out. So again, it sent shockwaves through the railroads because they had to improve their service. They had to go to places they weren’t used to going to. And then you think about the shippers. They had to go out and figure out how do you get one of these railcars because an oil company didn’t use anything in rail. So that’s how we started with a couple of oil and gas companies. They realized, “We’ve gotta get good at rail. We don’t know who to call. We don’t know how to buy a car. We don’t know how to schedule service.”

So, we got to help a couple folks early on figure it out for themselves. They became experts, and we’ve moved on and helped many other folks since that. That’s another way that we help people is when they’re new. They just don’t know. And working with railroads is quite unique. So we have railroaders on our team, and we have shippers on our team, so we know how to work with the railroads.

Paul: Yeah. As we talk about this, you mentioned supply chain, and I’ve never really understood that. I’ve understood it at sort of maybe a micro level that, if I’m going to make cakes for people, I need to get salt and eggs, and flour. And then I say, “Well, I’m going to be making one cake a week. So I want it delivered on Tuesday because I can bake it and deliver the cake on Thursday. But you’re multiplying that millions or tens of millions. So I don’t need just a dozen eggs. I need a million eggs. And that’s just something that I don’t think about as I’m living my day, is the magnitude of this.

So are there other things? We’ve talked about plastic and sand. Is it just that? Bulk logistics, it’s bulk. Lots of stuff. Do you guys do anything else beyond just figure out how to optimally move stuff and improve that. And I guess, a small percentage change in that, it calculates to lots of money. So there’s huge benefit to having somebody come in and look at that because if they can save one percent, it’s still a lot of money.

Taylor: Yeah. Exactly. Those two aspects, like I said, we’ve got folks from both sides of the table — shippers, transport companies. So we can help those folks all day long improve, look in the right spot for business, etc. because of the wealth of talent. And since we’re out there helping people, we’re usually in a pretty good position to know where the trends are at.

Paul: Yeah. That’s really cool because now I can hire you and sort of know what all of the best practices are out in the world. It’s sort of a way to get intelligence out there that I wouldn’t really know otherwise. You know that if you do A, B, and C, it will work. If you do it B, C, and A, it won’t work.

Taylor: Yeah. The other third of our business — and again, these are just rough orders of magnitude — are people that are investors. And they need to be smart, very fast. So they want to—

Paul: Now you’re not talking about like me, with my IRA or my retirement fund. You’re talking about commercial or, I guess, institutional investors?

Taylor: Correct.

Paul: Big, big organizations that invest.

Taylor: Yeah. Especially private equity. Private equity wants to put your money… Somebody else, some wealthy individual’s money to work very quickly with a high return. So they want to find these trends as early as they can, make sure they’re buying, they’re paying an appropriate amount for this company that they’re buying or investing in and do it in an extremely fast manner. So they need somebody that’s an expert in one of these markets, and, as you’ve heard, a lot of these markets we deal in are very dependent on logistics.

Paul: So do you provide advice about the logistics portion of that business or the whole business?

Taylor: Could be both.

Paul: Really.

Taylor: Could be both because some of them, logistics is the business. Say they want to buy a company that cleans out chemical tanks that are on the back of a tank truck. And we’ve got chemical industry veterans. We’ve got folks that have been in the service industry. We can quickly go in and assess how good of an investment that is.

Paul: I see.

Taylor: So we also might help them with their strategy because we’re so advanced in understanding the world. Their sharp analysts might take a year or two—

Paul: I see. To come up to speed.

Taylor: —to get there, and we can get in there in six weeks.

Paul: I see. Well that’s a huge benefit. So I’m an analyst at an investment firm, and I’m thinking about buying this type of company. I identify several of them, and I can come to you to say, give me the inside scoop on some of their costs and their expenses, even where it’s going, as you could project that.

Taylor: Or how are they perceived in the marketplace.

Paul: Oh, that’s a good point. Yeah.

Taylor: How, how efficient are they? What’s their infrastructure look like compared to the competitor? All those different aspects, we can help them assess it very quickly. And as you can imagine, when a company is for sale, they put together a wonderful marketing package that always has the same forecast. It’s always going up. And many times, it’s probably not going to happen. And our folks can go through the assumptions and look at the market and say, “Boy, yeah. I think they can do it.” Or, “You need to pay less because there’s no way they’re going to do that.”

Paul: I see. Well, that’s cool because everything else they’re consuming is historical. You know, it’s looking at what they did last year. It’s looking at how they did it, maybe their competition last year. But it’s nothing really looking forward. Or just an analyst sitting there saying, “Oh, I think they’re going to do this much looking forward.” Here’s tactical, right on the ground, to say this is what’s really happening. That’s very cool.

Taylor: Yeah. They might consume a lot of forecasts. And they pay tens of thousands for those forecasts. But it doesn’t mean they’re right. It doesn’t mean that they’re directionally correct, or they might have a flaw in them that nobody else realizes.

Paul: So for the normal, on-the-street person, this is a thriving business that has one aspect of the machine that is our economy. And you focus on making sure stuff gets there when it needs to get there at the most optimal way it can get there. So it seems like a niche but it’s integral to everything that happens. So if that, as you said, if that supply chain breaks down, there’s huge ripple effects, I would imagine. Businesses can’t deliver their products. People can’t buy bread, and supermarkets can’t stay in business, if we don’t have plastic for wrapping food. And so it’s really cool to me to be sitting here talking to somebody that focuses on this seemingly small, maybe even esoteric, from the pedestrian, just a normal person walking down the street. But this is so integrated into everything we do. And it’s sort of part of this big machine that goes on, that delivers all of the things that we’re used to getting.

Well, we’ve been talking with Taylor Robinson, President of PLG Consulting, experts in bulk logistics.

Also published on Medium.

Latest Podcasts

Archives

Categories

© 2025 Paul Parisi

Theme by Anders Norén — Up ↑